robdylan

Gold explains Ralepelle move


Written by Rob Otto (robdylan)

Posted in :In the news, Original Content, Sharks, Super Rugby on 9 Nov 2015 at 11:21
Tagged with : , , , ,

Last week we bemoaned a lack of details from the Sharks regarding the rationale behind the Chiliboy Ralepelle signing. Thanks to intrepid newshoud Ken Borland, though, we have a few words form Gary Gold on the subject.

β€œWe have done due diligence and Chiliboy is very remorseful,” says the sharks Director of Rugby. “He deserved his penalty, there is no excuse for what he did and he knows that, but he will have done his time in April next year, four games into Super Rugby.

“We weren’t the only people in the market for him and I hope he will do his talking on the field. He’s an outstanding leader, he’s matured as a player at 29 and he deserves a second chance. Personally I think he got a raw deal before going to France, it was very sad that he was let go. He’s an outstanding player and, while I was forwards coach for the Springboks, he put John Smit and Bismarck du Plessis under real pressure. His work-rate is sensational, he carries and drives well and his set-piece work is precise,” Gold told The Citizen on Monday.

Talk, after all, is cheap and for me, Ralepelle will need to prove his worth between the four white lines. All the same, I appreciate the honesty here and still think that the signing makes sense from a pure rugby point of view. Roll on April and let’s see exactly what Chiliboy has to offer; in the meantime, though, I can’t think of better motivation for Kyle Cooper, Franco Marais and Monde Hadebe to really up their own game.


182 Comments

  • What has he been doing for the past 2 years? How match-fit will he be or will he have to start at Vodacom Cup? That said, our hookers need some kind of injection as this was one of our very weak points this year.

  • Comment 1, posted at 09.11.15 11:26:09 by T-Shark Reply
    T-Shark
     
  • “He’s an outstanding player and, while I was forwards coach for the Springboks”

    And there’s the connection.

  • Comment 2, posted at 09.11.15 11:27:49 by Ben Reply
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  • If he was banned from all forms of rugby, then all he could do really was try and stay fit. No game time or rugby training for two years? I’m not sure he can make a comeback just like that. I fear GG may have picked a non starter.

  • Comment 3, posted at 09.11.15 11:30:06 by Caratacus Reply

    Caratacus
     
  • That’s all? A few lines to answer a question? The Sharks PR is disgraceful.

  • Comment 4, posted at 09.11.15 11:31:42 by Seth101 Reply
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    Nostraseth
     
  • good day Rob,
    if GG is looking to sign hookers since the departure of @biscmarkduplessis why could they not have a look at Deon Fourie personally i think it is a much better bet,he were a menace during the BaaBaas game last year.and performanc oversees also good.Ralepelle is unfortunately a mistake,Cooper Franco Marais and Monde Hadebe will be more than good enough

  • Comment 5, posted at 09.11.15 11:35:53 by Conrad Marx Reply

    Conrad Marx
     
  • @Conrad Marx (Comment 5) : Where you watching the same Currie Cup I was? Because to me hooker seemed like our biggest problem, none of Cooper, Marais or Hadebe looked up to CC form, SR is a whole other beast

  • Comment 6, posted at 09.11.15 11:40:53 by Die Kriek Reply

     
  • @Conrad Marx (Comment 5) : “@biscmarkduplessis”

    This isn’t twitter. πŸ˜†

  • Comment 7, posted at 09.11.15 11:47:15 by Ben Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 7) : I think what you mean to say is

    “Hi Conrad, welcome to the site. Nice to see you here…. ”

    I recall The Rules being quite specific about being welcoming to new posters πŸ™‚

  • Comment 8, posted at 09.11.15 11:55:44 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Conrad Marx (Comment 5) : and a big welcome from me – nice to see you here!

    Regarding Deon Fourie…. jinne, I don’t know. That oke vies with Derick Kuun for most unlikeable player ever in my book.

  • Comment 9, posted at 09.11.15 11:56:43 by robdylan Reply
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  • Doping issue aside. When last did this guy actually play a competitive game? And was he even playing well then? I assume as he was a free agent we havnt paid anything for him and wont until he starts playing? Will the Sharks be able to justify having all of Chilliboy, Hadebe, Marais , Cooper and the u21 hookers all on their books?

  • Comment 10, posted at 09.11.15 11:58:58 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 10) : well, he hasn’t played in 2 years at least, we know that much. So he’s essentially making a comeback to rugby, but it’s been done before.

    I would imagine that Chili’s contract would start on 10 April 2016 (since until that date, he can’t play or train, so why would we pay him).

    As for the glut of hookers, surely this is a sign of some “load shedding” to come after a poor Currie Cup campaign by all 3 of the seniors that we have?

  • Comment 11, posted at 09.11.15 12:03:12 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 8) : Apologies. I’m on Sharksworld with my phone. Had no idea he’s new.

    @Conrad Marx (Comment 5) : Welcome! :mrgreen:

  • Comment 12, posted at 09.11.15 12:06:33 by Ben Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 11) : Speaking of comebacks, I see Anton Leonard is back at the Bulls. As coach this time. There is enough looseforward depth so he shouldn’t be asked to play, I hope.

  • Comment 13, posted at 09.11.15 12:10:32 by Blue Centurion Reply

    Blue Centurion
     
  • @Ben (Comment 12) : it’s ok…. I still love you πŸ™‚

  • Comment 14, posted at 09.11.15 12:14:44 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Blue Centurion (Comment 13) : Good move by the Bulls, I presume as scrum coach. His SWD Eagles team scrum was very impressive and the Bulls of late, have looked very so so, especially considering the players they had available.

  • Comment 15, posted at 09.11.15 12:17:03 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Conrad Marx (Comment 5) : Welcome to the site! I reckon that if the Sharks had the ‘pulling power’ to lure an European-based player most of us would probably have Craig Burden on our wishlist ahead of Deon Fourie. I don’t think either options could even be considered realistic though. The siren call of the Euro will beat what we can offer nine times out of ten.

  • Comment 16, posted at 09.11.15 12:17:21 by vanmartin Reply
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  • Where are we going to find a better unemployed S15 quality hooker who has springbok experience. This is a great purchase in my mind – he may be making a comeback and it may take time to get back in form but even then, I cant see him being worse than what we already have. I have always felt sorry for the boy being born in a generation where South Africa had so many good hookers (Smit, Bizmark, Strauss ….) He does the basics very well, his line out throwing is top notch and his scrummaging is not bad either. I wouldn’t be surprised (politics aside) if we see him in a springbok jearsey in the next season or two.

  • Comment 17, posted at 09.11.15 12:21:39 by byron Reply

    byron
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 11) : Fair enough about the comeback. Just think it would be harsh to cut a guy for poor form after the cc (when the whole team was poor) in favour of a guy that last played over 2yrs ago. I did assume that we wouldnt be paying him until he actually played. In terms of being cut…i assume it will be based on practice who of Hadebe,Cooper,Marais and the u21s they feel doest add value going forward

  • Comment 18, posted at 09.11.15 12:24:00 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • @Conrad Marx (Comment 5) : dont want to get personal… but I would say its hard to claim that Cooper, Marais or Hadebe shone last season [not saying they are bad hookers its just that what ever we did last season they did not shine… in fact the main problem for these players is that they havent had an official coach since mid 2013 but that is another rant]… and in my eyes Deon Fourie has never shone as a hooker (a fine flank, but not a hooker) if you want to import someone who makes a pest of himself around the rucks and malls then get Gio Aplon [thats a joke please if you are a sharks selector do not take that sentence serioulsy].

    my problem with the Chiliboy signing is three fold.

    Firstly is he in form… this is hard to say as he is in a 2 year ban currently, we don’t even know if he has managed to keep himself match fit [noting that match fit or running fit and gym fit are two different things].

    Secondly is how much tread is left on the tyre . I mean Bismarc is 31 and going overseas because he belives he is in that phase of 2-3 years of Rugby left in him… Chilliboy is currently 29… this means that if in April he is the awesome he will only prolong the time till we have “drain” problem we have now by 2 years.

    Thirdly player retention at hooker. A while back (at the beggining of 2013) we had Bismarck, Burden, Hadebe, Cooper as we thought we were sitting pretty then Burden got tired of waiting and vamoused at the end of 2013 and all seemed well, but it was not then end of 2015 Biscmarck asks to be released… now we go from being spoilt for hookers at a bok level to be in dire need. if we make the current list in 2016 Ramapella, Hadebe, Cooper, Marais [no particular order] what are the chances we will keep Hadebe, Cooper, Marais for the 2 years to supersede Ramapella which means by the time Ramapella goes we are left with a big void.

  • Comment 19, posted at 09.11.15 12:25:27 by Warren Harvey Reply

     
  • @Seth101 (Comment 4) : I dont think Ken Borland or the Citizen newspaper handle The Sharks PR……..yet,…….or maybe they do…….who really knows.

  • Comment 20, posted at 09.11.15 12:40:33 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • Again, well done to Sharks management for this signing. Master stroke of the year. Now to get some depth at centre. Andre is good but doesn’t have a distribution game, kicking game and kills the ball most of the time. For your backline to work you need rugby brains at 10 and 12. Yes, Andre has a very good crashball game and also has a role to play. It would be nice to get some variety at centre.

  • Comment 21, posted at 09.11.15 12:42:32 by GreatSharksays Reply

     
  • Why are we worrying about what form he is in. He surely wont get picked unless he is the better performer on the practice field, as simple as that.

  • Comment 22, posted at 09.11.15 12:44:44 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 22) : Thank you for bringing common sense to this discussion or this particular point. He will have served his ban and will be eligible to play. Case closed.

  • Comment 23, posted at 09.11.15 12:51:03 by GreatSharksays Reply

     
  • Coz 4 hookers is enough!

  • Comment 24, posted at 09.11.15 12:58:03 by Sharkfinn Reply

     
  • Rob, thanks for introducing me to the writings of Ken Borland.

  • Comment 25, posted at 09.11.15 13:23:53 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 25) : you never read his stuff before? He really is one of the better ones (and I mean MUCH better)

  • Comment 26, posted at 09.11.15 14:12:11 by robdylan Reply
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  • iNTERESTING THAT KEN BORLAND’S NAME CAME UP HERE. HE’S ONE OF MY BOROTHER’S BEST FRIENDS GOING WAY BACK. MY BROTHER IS MARK WING – PHOTOGRAPHER.

  • Comment 27, posted at 09.11.15 14:34:53 by Den Reply

    Den
     
  • @Sharkfinn (Comment 24) : problem is Chilli only available to start training with the Sharks 4-5 week into Super rugby so probably not going to play until 6-7 weeks in (that is if he’s in shape and up to speed with rugby after his 2 year “vacation”). Cooper (for me) has technical problem that needs to be fix before he can be rated as a Super rugby level hooker and the other 2 hookers in the squad is youngsters that also needs some technical guidance before they will be ready for Super rugby!!!!!!!!
    Leaving Sharks with what to play at hooker for the start of Super rugby?!?!?!?!

  • Comment 28, posted at 09.11.15 14:55:54 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 28) : Coenie ?????

  • Comment 29, posted at 09.11.15 15:04:14 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 29) : If he dropped a bit of weight i def think its an option. Especially considering his neck issues at prop.

  • Comment 30, posted at 09.11.15 15:12:33 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • @GreatSharksays (Comment 21) : See I just posted re Esterhuizen to you on the wrong thread :mrgreen:

    Now I do not think Esterhuizen is totally as you point out as Esterhuizen when partnered with Fisher was distributing just fine and complimented each other very well. in fact s a combo they were excellent, we have seen so many good centers fail when not next to the right player to suit him.

  • Comment 31, posted at 09.11.15 15:16:25 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 29) : @SheldonK (Comment 30) : could work but how is his line out throwing?!?!?! If he can sort that them the rest is there to make the move a success!!!!!!!!!!

  • Comment 32, posted at 09.11.15 15:25:58 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 32) : he would hav to work on his throwing probably. but also he would have to want to make the move as well

  • Comment 33, posted at 09.11.15 15:35:33 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • @Conrad Marx (Comment 5) : Welcome to the site! Always good to see new posters. Are you by any chance related to Malcolm Marx? :mrgreen: If so, put in a good word with him and encourage him to join the Sharks! πŸ˜€

  • Comment 34, posted at 09.11.15 15:48:17 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Blue Centurion (Comment 13) : πŸ˜† I wouldn’t be against him playing… πŸ˜†

  • Comment 35, posted at 09.11.15 15:50:04 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 33) : true if a person does not want to chance it will never work but I do think he could make it work (if his neck injury force him to do it).

  • Comment 36, posted at 09.11.15 15:50:40 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 36) : i think Sharks management are lining him up at tighthead though

  • Comment 37, posted at 09.11.15 15:54:58 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 9) : I am also not a Deon Fourie fan…a weak scrummager is not what we need right now…

  • Comment 38, posted at 09.11.15 15:55:55 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Warren Harvey (Comment 19) : Gio Aplon is a pest in the malls?! That’s amusing… πŸ˜†

  • Comment 39, posted at 09.11.15 15:56:43 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 26) : MUCH, MUCH…

  • Comment 40, posted at 09.11.15 15:59:43 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 26) : Nope didnt know his stuff. He is now bookmarked.

  • Comment 41, posted at 09.11.15 16:37:10 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 37) : 100% correct!!! He will play tight head!!!

  • Comment 42, posted at 09.11.15 18:02:49 by JD Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 39) : Yup he runs around screaming getting his ice cream on the clothing, kicking over empty trolleys … then frans steyn tackles him and everyone’s upset just like kolbe. ….

  • Comment 43, posted at 09.11.15 18:27:07 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusion
     
  • @The hound (Comment 29) : the first time i read @Sheldonk mention there was talk of coenie at 2 i thought that could be a brilliant move.he carries,tackles,competes at the breakdown,is competitive and is a scrummager.
    Get john allen in to work with him re: line-out play and the finer points of the position.
    A Β±127 kg hooker could really help the sharks scrum.

  • Comment 44, posted at 09.11.15 19:10:18 by 50shadesofshark Reply

     
  • @coolfusion (Comment 43) : πŸ˜€

  • Comment 45, posted at 09.11.15 19:21:54 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 42) : I can seriously live with that. I had always been critical of that but on his last end of year tour he seriously impressed me there…

  • Comment 46, posted at 09.11.15 19:23:14 by pastorshark Reply
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  • If Coenie can stay away from injury he can play tighthead. He has the grunt for it. I would rather by ale him at tighthead than lourens. For that matter I think jacobie who is smaller than lourens has more power.

  • Comment 47, posted at 09.11.15 19:38:49 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusion
     
  • @coolfusion (Comment 47) : I would rather have him at tighthead translates to by ale? Really how does that make sense? This auto complete is just a grammatical law unto itself.

  • Comment 48, posted at 09.11.15 19:41:20 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusion
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 9) : I must agree with you. I would rather have guy with an even temperament like chilli. I am quite keen to see how he makes amends. I have a feeling we are in for a pleasant surprise. Nothing like a rehabilitated man wanting to prove himself.

  • Comment 49, posted at 09.11.15 19:46:30 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusion
     
  • @sharks_lover (Comment 31) : Alright, let’s hope he can offer us more than just a crash ball cause the game has changed dramatically. Lol…we even have ex Springboks campaigning live for HM and his one dimensional game to go.

  • Comment 50, posted at 09.11.15 19:52:42 by GreatSharksays Reply

     
  • @coolfusion (Comment 48) : :mrgreen: πŸ˜†

  • Comment 51, posted at 09.11.15 20:53:28 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 46) : @coolfusion (Comment 47) : ja he can be a good tight head, as for Lourens I really believe this is the season for him to step up or time to move on!!!!

  • Comment 52, posted at 09.11.15 21:46:08 by JD Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 20) : Exactly, everyone but the Sharks are talking about the ban. All we get is a few quoted lines from Gold, that’s all.

  • Comment 53, posted at 09.11.15 22:04:08 by Seth101 Reply
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  • I’l give chilli a fair chance, no prejudgements

  • Comment 54, posted at 10.11.15 00:08:54 by revolverocelot Reply

     
  • @JD (Comment 52) : One of the two for Lourens…and one of those is more likely than the other…

  • Comment 55, posted at 10.11.15 06:16:43 by pastorshark Reply
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  • This is interesting.

    http://m.news24.com/sport24/Rugby/Springboks/ex-boks-launch-heyneke-must-fall-campaign-20151107

  • Comment 56, posted at 10.11.15 06:51:58 by Ben Reply
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  • @coolfusion (Comment 43) : not sure about inside the malls,but aplon did almost run me over speeding in the mall parking lot in stellenbosch πŸ˜‰

  • Comment 57, posted at 10.11.15 07:25:55 by HeinF Reply

    HeinF
     
  • @pastorshark (Comment 38) : Deon Fourie is a pretty decent open side flank, but a lousy hooker. His set piece is not good enough to be a hooker.

  • Comment 58, posted at 10.11.15 09:00:52 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 56) : Very interesting. If it came from 2 other guys perhaps would be more credible. Serfontein upset Jan has lost his place to DeAllende and Claasens should rather keep quiet after his son plays for France- great loyalty there.

  • Comment 59, posted at 10.11.15 09:06:23 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 59) : I have no idea who they are. πŸ˜†

  • Comment 60, posted at 10.11.15 09:27:52 by Ben Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 60) : Only know that they are ex Boks.

  • Comment 61, posted at 10.11.15 09:32:13 by Ben Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 61) : But I do agree with everything they say, though.

  • Comment 62, posted at 10.11.15 09:32:49 by Ben Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 62) : Look i have nothing against ex Boks speaking out. But have some credibility. They must not just jump on a bandwagon when it suits them but keep quiet on other important issues. Its a lot harder to speak up on a new point rather than just jump on what the masses say

  • Comment 63, posted at 10.11.15 10:24:32 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 59) : Divan Serfontein is not related to Jan Serfontein.

  • Comment 64, posted at 10.11.15 10:28:55 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 64) : Are u sure? I really thought he was. Who is Jan related to then as refrance is always made to his pedigree

  • Comment 65, posted at 10.11.15 10:30:23 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 59) : You are so pig ignorant and opinionated sometimes,to dismiss two great Bok captains,one a Natal legend and one a W.P legend ,shows how narrow minded you are.Think for a moment how concerned these guys must be to take this action.

  • Comment 66, posted at 10.11.15 10:31:58 by The hound Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 63) : Why don’t you rather dissect the article and rubbish their concerns,rather than jump to the defence this pathetic loser of a coach who has failed on every front.

  • Comment 67, posted at 10.11.15 10:35:41 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 66) : Very funny they are only concerned now?? As i said easy to jump on a bandwagon. I didnt see them saying boo or baa beforehand or in the leading up years? I also didnt see Claasen say anything when his kid played for France instead of the Boks- great pride im sure. So yes great servants of the game…but dont throw name around when it suits you. So yes call me narrow minded and all the personal insults you want it doesnt change how i feel about it.

  • Comment 68, posted at 10.11.15 10:38:20 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @The hound (Comment 67) : Yeh sorry i dont subscribe to the lets hang the coach theory. but you carry on.

  • Comment 69, posted at 10.11.15 10:40:39 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 69) : So rather than question their motives ,dissect the article and tell us why they are wrong.Or better still gives us a good reason to believe in Meyer and why we should give him four more years.

  • Comment 70, posted at 10.11.15 10:45:30 by The hound Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 63) : Surely you jest…
    Divan is not directly related to Jan Serfontein.
    If anyone knows about bleeding for his team, province and country then it is Wynand Claasen, from moving from the mighty Northern Transvaal, to move to the then rugby backwaters of Natal and once there moving from the mighty Collegians to the very unfancied University of Natal. His leagacy at Natal and at NUD is immense. He then captained the Boks to New Zealand in 1981 under terrible conditions, sometimes living in stadium bathrooms…you know the story and almost coming away with a drawn series against the All Blacks, this while playing under the harshest conditions imaginable, getting taunted, spat at, sworn at, flour bombed….again you know the story.
    No sorry, Claasens has every right to be concerned about the team he once captained. As for where his son plays, well that would have been his choice and not his fathers doing.

  • Comment 71, posted at 10.11.15 10:45:45 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 68) : This is about not renewing Meyers contract – there was nothing for them to freak out about until now.

  • Comment 72, posted at 10.11.15 10:50:13 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 65) : he is related to two rugby greats – his dad Boelie Serfontein played number 8 for Eastern Province and his brother Boela (imaginative naming is a strength of the clan) plays lock for Free State.

  • Comment 73, posted at 10.11.15 10:51:33 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 73) : oh ok, i really wonder why refrance was made to his dad the Bok during that Junior RWC he played in and got player of the tournament. Perhaps ignorant commentators

  • Comment 74, posted at 10.11.15 10:53:46 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 74) : Plus both these guys are not just ex Boks but former Bok captains so I think they have earned a right to have an opinion on Bok rugby.

  • Comment 75, posted at 10.11.15 10:57:08 by The hound Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 71) : Did i complain about Claasen the player? No. I criticised what he has done as an ex Bok and about when he chose to speak up. If he wasnt happy with Meyer then why leave it till now? What about the last 4yrs? Were those ok then. I was under the impression Divan was related, my mistake there. If he has no problem with his sn representing another country i dotn see why he should have a problem with who coaches this country. As is ad its easy to pick and chose

  • Comment 76, posted at 10.11.15 10:58:02 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 65) : Brother of Boella Serfontein, father Boellie played for EP and grandfather Jack Slater played wing for the Boks. Thanks Wikipedia. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 77, posted at 10.11.15 10:58:33 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 75) : The opinion i have no problem with. But if they werent happy with the coach why not speak up in the last 4yrs??

  • Comment 78, posted at 10.11.15 10:59:37 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 77) : Grandfather Slater…how does that translate to dad Serfontein? Took the wife’s name?

  • Comment 79, posted at 10.11.15 11:00:34 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 78) : Thankfully they are speaking up now and will prevent this loser getting another four years.The crux of the matter is Meyer went on record as saying judge me on the 2015 World Cup,well he is being judged by his peers now and is coming up wanting.

  • Comment 80, posted at 10.11.15 11:03:48 by The hound Reply
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    The hound
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 76) : It is because of what happened in the previous 4 years that he is speaking up now – They surely didnt know that Meyer was going to screw it up so royally then. Like most of the country. I m sure by year 3 and 4 they were getting itchy and hoping for the turn around, like most of us. It just never came.

  • Comment 81, posted at 10.11.15 11:04:41 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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    Salmonoid the Subtle
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 79) : Mothers probably a Slater.

  • Comment 82, posted at 10.11.15 11:07:49 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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    Salmonoid the Subtle
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 79) : dude, you can also have a grandfather on your mother’s side….

  • Comment 83, posted at 10.11.15 11:08:46 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylan
     
  • @The hound (Comment 80) : Yes Meyer hasnt been perfect but if we think we were realistically going to get anything more than 3rd this RWC i think we are disillusioned about how strong our rugby is. Look at the results of SA rugby at all levels in the last 4 yrs. 3rd place is what we deserved. Best bet moving forward would be to get actual assistant coaches that add value.

  • Comment 84, posted at 10.11.15 11:10:15 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 83) : Kinda like Lambie’s ,Labuschane rugby pedigree

  • Comment 85, posted at 10.11.15 11:10:19 by The hound Reply
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    The hound
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 83) : ah ok yeh fair point. I just assumed the direct path cos of the rugby thing

  • Comment 86, posted at 10.11.15 11:12:17 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 84) : You are such a funny guy,what’s with your Meyer adulation,are you related,go to the same church,share a carpool,ex lovers,belong to the same gun club.
    He had his chance he blew it,he must piss off and let someone else take over.

  • Comment 87, posted at 10.11.15 11:14:17 by The hound Reply
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  • Why should his son representing France have a bearing on his opinion of something that he is deeply entrenched in, thats like expecting anyone who has a family member living and working overseas to not have an opinion on South Africa and if they do then it is to be excluded because they have a son working overseas.

  • Comment 88, posted at 10.11.15 11:14:59 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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    Salmonoid the Subtle
     
  • @The hound (Comment 87) : That statement shows that you just have personal hatred for the guy. Ive never met the guy in my life. But i am able to see things in perspective not just shout my mouth off with the opinion in favour at the time. Yes he hasnt been perfect- i love to see a coach that is. Id also love to see what in the last 4yrs justifies us believing we can finish anything higher than 3rd in the world? Certainly not the super rugby / junior rugby or Bok results.

  • Comment 89, posted at 10.11.15 11:18:01 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 88) : No thats not an accurate comparison sorry. If he is such a proud supporter of Bok rugby then why did he not say anything about his son having to go overseas to get a pro contract and then play for France? As i said its easy to pick and choose when it suits you. Just my opinion

  • Comment 90, posted at 10.11.15 11:20:27 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 89) :This four years you are talking about, are the same four years he has been the Bok coach ,on that I agree.

  • Comment 91, posted at 10.11.15 11:22:11 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 91) : i suppose you blame him for the fall in the Rand, the drought and everything else. As i said some people can see perspective and others go with the popular opinion

  • Comment 92, posted at 10.11.15 11:24:07 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 68) : I guess you missed this part.

    β€œAfter Heyneke Meyer took over as Springbok coach at the end of 2011, he said that the people must judge him after the 2015 World Cup.Β  Well, the tournament had come and gone and now is the time to judge him.”

  • Comment 93, posted at 10.11.15 11:25:00 by Ben Reply
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    Ben
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 92) : No I just blame him for the demise of the Springbok rugby team and the fact that I tend to root for every team we are playing against since he became the coach.
    Before you start calling me a fair-weather supporter I would like to mention that I have watched the Boks,in Wales,England,Ireland,France,Australia and New Zealand,and have been to two finals where we won the World Cup.

  • Comment 94, posted at 10.11.15 11:32:22 by The hound Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 93) : Thats fair enough. We finished 3rd. Thats an enormous improvement from the last RWC. Did you realistically expect the Boks to win the RWC and anything else a failure?

  • Comment 95, posted at 10.11.15 11:35:01 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • @The hound (Comment 94) : Well done for going to watch rugby games. But if you root for other teams you are a fair weather supporter no matter how you sugar coat it. Yes we all want the Boks to win every game but is that realistic- no. If you think it is realistic then im afraid we arguing a mute point as thats not how sport works only fantasy rugby

  • Comment 96, posted at 10.11.15 11:36:57 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • I realistically expected them to win it four years ago. Pieter de Villiers failed. I realistically expected Meyer to build a team that can win the world cup in four years when he took over. He also failed. Why is it fair that Pieter gets the sack but Heyneke doesn’t? They both failed.

  • Comment 97, posted at 10.11.15 11:38:31 by Ben Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 97) : Based on what did you expect them to win it? The All Blacks have been the best side in the world the last 8 years and especially the last 4. So if you realistically expected them to win i think thats being a bit naive.

  • Comment 98, posted at 10.11.15 11:41:18 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 98) : Okay, you say the Boks are so kak, did you realistically expect them to lose to Japan, Argentina, Wales, Ireland Australia and New Zealand all in one year?

  • Comment 99, posted at 10.11.15 11:48:03 by Ben Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 98) : So what you are saying is when we won the cup it was because the AB’S had crap teams

  • Comment 100, posted at 10.11.15 11:50:19 by The hound Reply
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    The hound
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 90) : So because his son went overseas and plyed his trade there and grabbed an opportunity to play international rugby it suddenly makes his father a less proud supporter than you or me, never mind what he went through for the Bok jersey and his country.

  • Comment 101, posted at 10.11.15 11:55:15 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 98) : No offense mate, but I think the only person on this thread being naive is you.

  • Comment 102, posted at 10.11.15 11:56:42 by Ben Reply
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    Ben
     
  • @Ben (Comment 99) : Did i say the Boks are kak? I said they did well to finish 3rd at the RWC as thats where we realistically are in World rugby. This is sport not fantasy league…losses happen, its not a perfect world. Am i happy we lost- no. Can i accept that this is sport and it happens- yes.

  • Comment 103, posted at 10.11.15 12:04:28 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 103) : You left out one. Do you accept mediocrity – yes.

  • Comment 104, posted at 10.11.15 12:05:41 by Ben Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 100) : Not sure how you got to that? Its sport and that means its a fair contest and anyone can win. On the day the All Blacks happened to not be at their best and they lost. The Boks being a good team went onto win. In 2011 and 2015 the All Blacks didnt have a bad day so being the best side in the world they went on and won it. You can judge Meyer on many things- u said judge him on the RWC. He finished 3rd which was a vast improvement from the last RWC. If you think anything other than a win is a failure then so be it- but thats not realistic.

  • Comment 105, posted at 10.11.15 12:07:15 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 103) : Why then do you want to retain Meyer, do you think he has it in him to improve the Boks as a team?

  • Comment 106, posted at 10.11.15 12:08:49 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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    Salmonoid the Subtle
     
  • @Ben (Comment 104) : haha as i said there is perspective and there is the favourite opinion of the time. If you believe the Boks will realistically win every game otherwise its a failure then good for you. Unfortunately thats not how sport works. Well not in real life

  • Comment 107, posted at 10.11.15 12:09:10 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 106) : Yes Meyer on the condition he gets better assistants and signs a 2yr deal.

  • Comment 108, posted at 10.11.15 12:11:11 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 108) : Meyer personally chose all his assistants.

  • Comment 109, posted at 10.11.15 12:19:14 by The hound Reply
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    The hound
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 105) : How are you being realistic? Would we have made it further in this world cup if we had to play the likes of New Zealand or Australia in the quarter final again? Let’s compare apples with apples.

  • Comment 110, posted at 10.11.15 12:25:08 by Ben Reply
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    Ben
     
  • @The hound (Comment 109) : He did and got it wrong as he picked guys he worked well with but underestimated the value they could technically add. But there are many people that think the top guy needs to pick his own staff. Case in point Jake White when at the sharks. Personally i think the assistant positions should be applied for and evaluated and then chosen the same way as the head coach is. There should also be 1 assistant piked for the sake on continuity in much the same way the All Blacks do.

  • Comment 111, posted at 10.11.15 12:25:15 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 108) : Who chose his assistants? He did. Not his fault either?

  • Comment 112, posted at 10.11.15 12:27:05 by Ben Reply
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    Ben
     
  • @The hound (Comment 109) : You beat me to it.

  • Comment 113, posted at 10.11.15 12:28:21 by Ben Reply
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    Ben
     
  • @Ben (Comment 110) : Would we have made it further in 2007 if we had played those sides? Would Oz have made the final if like in 2011 they had to play NZ- no. Its a non comparison. Teh Boks are realistically the 3rd best side in the world and thats where they finished. If we were winning super rugby and junior rwc titles left right and centre then fair enough we should realistically expect more. But last i checked we werent…

  • Comment 114, posted at 10.11.15 12:29:08 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 105) : Think everyone knows that the Boks would have had a better outcome had the ref not played a serious role in 2011. In spite of that, in spite of winning a tri-nations, beating the All Blacks in NZ and beating them I think 3 times and beating the British and Irish Lions, PDV was shown the door. Jake also said judge me at the RWC and he won it and still got shown the door. So what are you defending? What special thing has HM done to deserve an extension to his contract? Our rugby has not improved, his selections are crap, he selects a particular type of player and then says we don’t have the skills in SA. He takes no responsibility and chooses to find blame elsewhere. No players of colour were developed during his time yet there is a 2019 50% representation target. Elton was given no chance yet Pollard who has serious short comings was given so many opportunities. He selects Kriel at 13 when Mapoe was the inform outside centre in the country. Please guys, HM is not the right coach. He has a favourites and a flawed game plan. I still maintain that had Lambie started we would have beaten the All Blacks and won this thing. Fact of the matter is that we need to fundamentally change our style of play if we are to meet the 50%. HM’s one dimensional game plan will not work. We need a coach of the calibre of Eddie ift his game is to rely on skill and speed

  • Comment 115, posted at 10.11.15 12:30:24 by GreatSharksays Reply

     
  • @Ben (Comment 112) : Yes he got his assistants wrong. So you judging him on who he picks as his assistants or are you judging on where he finished in the RWC?

  • Comment 116, posted at 10.11.15 12:30:47 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 111) : I’m sorry, but that’s bullshit. And that’s where the article hits the nail on the head.

    β€œLook further to his inexperienced managing and coaching team (which he insisted be appointed) with absolute no international experience at this level. Apparently they also do not know how to coach individual skills. It therefore indicates that Heyneke appoints people, not because of their ability as coaches, but so that he could control them and demand total loyalty.”

  • Comment 117, posted at 10.11.15 12:30:52 by Ben Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 116) : I’m judging him on his 4 year tenure as Bok coach. He failed.

  • Comment 118, posted at 10.11.15 12:34:18 by Ben Reply
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    Ben
     
  • @Ben (Comment 117) : That last quote is inaccurate as they left out that its THEIR opinion thats why he picked them. The fact that he gets on well with them and thereby creates a stable management team without everyone shouting they want their own opinion didnt suit their argument so didnt mention that. And was it not said at length that Jake White should have picked his own assistants instead of the ones forced apon him?

  • Comment 119, posted at 10.11.15 12:35:51 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • @Ben (Comment 118) : And what was the only pass? Winning the RWC?

  • Comment 120, posted at 10.11.15 12:36:42 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 118) : That’s where you are mistaken. Everyone isn’t judging him ON the world cup. We are judging him AFTER the world cup.

  • Comment 121, posted at 10.11.15 12:37:00 by Ben Reply
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    Ben
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 119) : Guess that makes all your statements inaccurate too. πŸ™„

  • Comment 122, posted at 10.11.15 12:39:49 by Ben Reply
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    Ben
     
  • @Ben (Comment 121) : After the RWC? based on what the Boks being on holiday in Japan?

  • Comment 123, posted at 10.11.15 12:40:17 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 120) : He failed long before the world cup started.

  • Comment 124, posted at 10.11.15 12:40:20 by Ben Reply
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    Ben
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 123) : Meaning we are judging him on his four year tenure. Not only on the world cup. The results in the world cup are irrelevant.

  • Comment 125, posted at 10.11.15 12:41:16 by Ben Reply
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    Ben
     
  • @Ben (Comment 122) : You missed the point but oh well. @Ben (Comment 124) : Based on?

  • Comment 126, posted at 10.11.15 12:43:09 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • @Ben (Comment 125) : Ok and what domestic results in super rugby etc show that the Boks should be higher than 3rd in the World?

  • Comment 127, posted at 10.11.15 12:44:22 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 126) : “You missed the point but oh well.”

    It’s common sense, Sheldon. Obviously it’s their opinion. I do believe it, but did I say it’s fact?

  • Comment 128, posted at 10.11.15 12:47:42 by Ben Reply
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    Ben
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 126) : “Based on?”

    Results, performances and team selections.

  • Comment 129, posted at 10.11.15 12:48:32 by Ben Reply
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    Ben
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 127) : Should the 3rd team in the world be losing to the likes of Japan, Argentina, Wales and Ireland. I don’t think so.

  • Comment 130, posted at 10.11.15 12:50:01 by Ben Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 127) : What Bok results showed you that we played like the third best team in the world?

  • Comment 131, posted at 10.11.15 12:50:54 by Ben Reply
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    Ben
     
  • @Ben (Comment 130) : Its sport- it happens. U do know that the team ranked higher doesnt get a points head start? The Boks beat the All Blacks at Ellis Park..based on your deduction that should never happen as they ranked higher. @Ben (Comment 129) : So you want a Bok coach to take players that produce pretty average results domestically against NZ and OZ counterparts and perform a magic trick so we somehow beat their National Team consistently? haha tell me another one

  • Comment 132, posted at 10.11.15 12:53:15 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • @Ben (Comment 131) : Well just this year the games in NZ and OZ during rugby championship. The away game to Arg. The Semi final vs All Blacks.

  • Comment 133, posted at 10.11.15 12:54:41 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 132) : Well thats why we want a new coach, We want one that can take those players that battle to beat their NZ and Aussie counterparts at Superrugby and mould them into a team that can compete and beat the best in the world. Clearly Meyer cant do this and in the past 4 years has not given the slightest indication that he has any idea on how to do it.

  • Comment 134, posted at 10.11.15 13:01:52 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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    Salmonoid the Subtle
     
  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 134) : So you dont want a coach you want a miracle worker…tough qualifications for that job then. Although i would put forward that the win at Ellis park last year, the games in NZ and OZ this year and even the Semi final show that the Boks are very close.

  • Comment 135, posted at 10.11.15 13:04:17 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 134) : I’m not wasting my time with this guy anymore. Based on the comment I just read on the other thread, he seems to think he is the only “wise” one here. πŸ™„

  • Comment 136, posted at 10.11.15 13:10:16 by Ben Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 136) : i never said that! But you keep believing the Boks should win every game no matter what or its a failure. Im sure you do very Well on Jonah Lomu rugby on playstation

  • Comment 137, posted at 10.11.15 13:13:45 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • We dropped to 5th in the world rankings just a few months ago. I wonder why….

  • Comment 138, posted at 10.11.15 13:14:35 by Ben Reply
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    Ben
     
  • @Ben (Comment 138) : Where were we ranked after the last RWC in 2011? and after this RWC?

  • Comment 139, posted at 10.11.15 13:15:58 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • Heyneke need look no further. He can find a new assistant coach right here on Sharksworld.

    @SheldonK (Comment 139) : You should be exactly what Heyneke is looking for.

  • Comment 140, posted at 10.11.15 13:24:49 by Ben Reply
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    Ben
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 139) : Can you comprehend? I did say that Pieter de Villiers failed.

  • Comment 141, posted at 10.11.15 13:28:09 by Ben Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 140) : Id love to coach the Boks…are there better coaches out there though, most definitely. If you had said you didnt want Meyer to coach as he didnt pick your favourite player and because you dont like the style of play then i would have agreed that your reasons were valid.

  • Comment 142, posted at 10.11.15 13:29:46 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • @Ben (Comment 141) : Yes he failed to win a RWC and get through a press conference but i thought he was slowly getting the Boks on a semi right path. That game vs OZ was a bad game from the Boks (and the ref but mostly the Boks). At least during DeVilliers tenure some SA super rugby sides did well and actually won the damn thing. In the last 4years SA rugby as a whole has been very underwhelming. I do believe that its slowly turning a corner which is why im interested to see what 2016 will bring

  • Comment 143, posted at 10.11.15 13:34:17 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 142) : Luckily I won’t have any sleepless nights over you agreeing on my reasons being valid.

  • Comment 144, posted at 10.11.15 13:36:20 by Ben Reply
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    Ben
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 135) : Why a miracle worker? Do you really think that there are no coaches out there that can get more out of the talent pool that is SA rugby. Could Jones or Hansen or Cheika not be able to get anything better from them than what we have seen for the last 4 years?

  • Comment 145, posted at 10.11.15 13:41:22 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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    Salmonoid the Subtle
     
  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 145) : Given what we have seen domestically the last 4 years i highly doubt it. The Bok coach has very limited contact time with the players to perform these miracles. I do think that there has been a slight mindshift locally in terms of playing style and the talent coming through. There will be anew breed of Bok player in 2016 and onwards. Whether these good signs in the CC translate to any sort of success on the Super rugby stage remains to be seen but its definitely a positive step i think. If you look at the local coaching talent that Hansen and Cheika specifically get to help them do you not think that makes their job a lot easier when those players arrive at a National camp? Hansen alluded to it in an interview saying that his job is easy…all he needs to do is select the best players (only criteria) from the massive group of successful talent at his disposal and sort of point them in the same direction. No off field distractions etc. Just pure rugby.

  • Comment 146, posted at 10.11.15 13:48:59 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 146) : Heyneke has failed in virtually everything possible in 2015…he single handedly divided the nation and put Boks back from an a Nation acceptance stance hugely! His truly idioitic game plans, selection blunders, persisting with old and injured players, neglecting transformation opportunities and stubbornness to change has hurt the Bok brand ! He must go…..klaar!

  • Comment 147, posted at 10.11.15 15:41:21 by grant10 Reply

     
  • @grant10 (Comment 147) : he single handedly divided the Nation…haha ok. Im not sure which transformation opportunities he has missed, but hard to discuss here. His game plans werent always perfect (well they werent fling the ball around like 7s) but he was still a penalty away from a RWC final. No coach will EVER satisfy the nation in terms of selection, not 1! People will always have their favourites. So yes criticise his way of playing and get a new coach in that will fling the ball around…although im sure SA players could have handled that…perhaps the new breed going forward but time will tell. The past 2years games at Ellis Park against the All Blacks have bee described as the best 2 rugby games of the last 4years globally…just a thought.

  • Comment 148, posted at 10.11.15 15:59:29 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • @grant10 (Comment 147) : You can take a horse to the water……

  • Comment 149, posted at 10.11.15 16:23:41 by Ben Reply
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    Ben
     
  • @Ben (Comment 149) : Who would you replace Meyer with?

  • Comment 150, posted at 10.11.15 16:26:33 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 150) : With somebody that has more than one peanut for a brain.

  • Comment 151, posted at 10.11.15 16:46:24 by Ben Reply
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    Ben
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 150) : Gary Gold is that the answer you want Shelly.

  • Comment 152, posted at 10.11.15 16:56:20 by The hound Reply
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    The hound
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 150) : All though I agree with you to some extend with what you have been arguing, I still think Meyer had his chance. We need some new ideas etc, people are rooting for Plum to be the next bok coach, what does this tell you?

  • Comment 153, posted at 10.11.15 16:59:08 by Uli Boelie Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter
    Uli Boelie
     
  • This is the best time to take a hard stance. If we if and maybe now we will suffer. If you were an investor and the springboks were your investment. Would you keep Meyer on the hopes he could come right and never have the nagging thought that he will always be a third place coach. Honestly now what would you do if you had a lot to lose?

  • Comment 154, posted at 10.11.15 18:31:32 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusion
     
  • Everything Gold says and support is a failure. How will this be different .

    Talk talk talk talk talk.

  • Comment 155, posted at 10.11.15 18:47:25 by Honey Badger Reply

    Honey Badger
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 132) : You are something else. PDV has a tri-nations trophy, British and Irish Lions trophy, 3 wins against NZ, a win in NZ and was robbed the ref in the RWC. Jake had a tri-nations and a RWC trophy. These two were both fired abd you see it fit to reward HM with 4 more years….for what? I think you like to be against everyone else.

  • Comment 156, posted at 10.11.15 19:10:12 by GreatSharksays Reply

     
  • @Bokhoring (Comment 58) : My sentiments exactly…

  • Comment 157, posted at 11.11.15 07:32:04 by pastorshark Reply
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    pastorshark
     
  • @Ben (Comment 149) : talking about horses: what is done to a horse with a broken leg? I’m not saying we should shoot him I’m just asking?!?!?! 😈 πŸ˜†

  • Comment 158, posted at 11.11.15 07:36:15 by JD Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    JD
     
  • @GreatSharksays (Comment 156) : ja don’t understand that logic?!?! Giving him an extension on his contract make no since as he did not achieve a lot in his first four years!!!!!!!!!! Anyway who wants to see Vic captain the bokke in 2019?!?!?!

  • Comment 159, posted at 11.11.15 07:39:46 by JD Reply
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    JD
     
  • @Ben (Comment 151) : Ur answer shows everything i thought…

  • Comment 160, posted at 11.11.15 07:53:40 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • @The hound (Comment 152) : Yeh well done…im sure ur fellow grade 7s think you are so funny.

  • Comment 161, posted at 11.11.15 07:54:14 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • Fascinating thread. I agree with points from both sides. Instead of being very vocal about some of these points, I am very happy to have SARU do a proper performance review with input from all the major roleplayers and make an objective decision based on that. That is what they will be doing, isn’t it?

  • Comment 162, posted at 11.11.15 07:59:25 by pastorshark Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Administrator
    pastorshark
     
  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 153) : If people actually read what i said and not just went with blind emotion they would see that i say Meyer should stay to prevent a political appointment. Those thinking that Eddie Jones, Robbie Deans, etc will take over are living in a dream world. Be realistic. If there is a genuine SA contender then by all means lets get him in…but give him the right tools. Some argue for a guy picking his own assistants and some argue against it. When white was fired (although that was kinda self imposed) we moaned that there was no continuity with Alistair Coetzee not appointed. When PDV was appointed we moaned that Heyneke Meyer was the logical choice and SARU was stupid for chosing PDV. When Meyer was eventually appointed after PDV people were happy with that. So yes the Boks didnt win the RWC and set the world alight…but which sa sides have in these last 4yrs at either Super rugby or Junior RWC level? I also mentioned that i think both the coaching and players are taking the corner slowly going on evidence of the CC (for what thats worth these days) so i am excited to see what the new breed of Bok side looks like in 2016. But hey lets rather get emotional like all South africans are famous for and torch everything and everyone…cos hell we bladdy good at that.

  • Comment 163, posted at 11.11.15 08:01:13 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 163) : Sure, who do you think could or would be a political appointment then? I have no idea who else could coach the boks other than Plum, Coetzee or maybe Jones. Meyer had his chance and he failed, I will give him credit, he kept us at no2 for 3 years which in itself is not bad workings from him. That said, we would all agree that what he did manage at the same time he failed terribly by not giving enough fringe players a chance, playing his old Bulls players etc, this in itself he set himself up for failure. No one else is to blame but he himself. I hope 2016 we have some fresh coaching staff who have the experience to take us forward, I would like to see new combinations like a Lambie and Paige play together.

  • Comment 164, posted at 11.11.15 08:34:30 by Uli Boelie Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter
    Uli Boelie
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 163) : If I got the feeling that HM has what it takes to take us forward, I would prefer him to stay on. However I simply don’t get that feeling at all. I also don’t think he has and can handle the political issues very well – probably the first requirement for a Bok coach.

    My preference would be for Alistair Coetzee to be the head coach / manager, and surround him with some heavy weight international assistant coaches .

  • Comment 165, posted at 11.11.15 08:54:48 by Bokhoring Reply
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    Bokhoring
     
  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 164) : Interesting you mention Paige as most didnt think his inclusion was justified. Besides WHite who pretty much started afresh the last 2 coaches havnt exactly thrown in a brand new side. But neither have NZ. Yes there have been some new players and yes there will always always be guys left out. As we not really allowed to discuss it on here people dotn fully grasp the political pressure that will be applied both on the sports minister and Saru when it comes to the Bok coach appointment, even if Meyer is retained. So trying to appoint a foreigner could see some real issues. Which is why i advocate that it should be a local head guy. There are guys like PDV, Chester Williams etc that want to coach and those will be the names pushed forward. As Alistair Coetzee is familiar with the environment i would accept that appointment. Guys will say Ackermann- my counter is that barring success in a weak CC he hasnt shown he can out think the NZ/OZ guys. And more importantly is that he is creating good players at the Lions that can feed the Boks and if he leaves who will take over and carry on that good work. If we look back over a long period of time through Super rugby and trinations etc…the Boks have never consistently beaten the All, Blacks and have an up and down period against OZ. So be right being 2/3 in the world is pretty much where we are at realistically.

  • Comment 166, posted at 11.11.15 09:02:39 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • @Bokhoring (Comment 165) : As you say the pressure on a Bok coach, especially outside pressure is immense and if anything maybe thats why he needs a break. I wouldnt mind Alistair Coetzee appointment…but as you say provided he is given the tools to succeeed by appointing quality assistants and technical staff.

  • Comment 167, posted at 11.11.15 09:09:51 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 167) : So you are saying we should give Alistar a chance as long as Saru
    appoint his assistants for him.This is so in contention with the popular sentiment here of which you are a champion that Gary Gold’s biggest short coming is that he was unable to appoint his own assistants.
    Which one is it ,me and my fellow grade 7’s would like you to clarify it for us.
    Should the coach appoint his own assistants or shouldn’t he.

  • Comment 168, posted at 11.11.15 09:57:45 by The hound Reply
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    The hound
     
  • @The hound (Comment 168) : Ive never said Gold’s downfall is him not being able to appoint his assistants. What i did say is that his assistants were not good enough. There is a difference. Perhaps they will teach you that next year. I mentioned in another comment somewhere that i feel that the assistant positions should be appointed the same way as the head coach is appointed but synergy has to be taken into account. Cant have 3 guys all wanting a different way as thats counter productive. That synergy benefit is why some people say the head coach should pick his own assistants.

  • Comment 169, posted at 11.11.15 10:02:12 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 169) : So should he or shouldn’t he pick his own assistants
    ,I am asking you not only because you have an opinion on most things
    But also as there are are contrary arguments here, even in your last argument.
    The synergy has to be first and foremost with the head coach.If that is the case then he is the best person to pick his assistants.
    The problem is that you have to be a supremely confident person to like Cheka pick your closest Super Rugby rival,Larkam as your assistant.
    Paranoid individuals like Meyer tend to choose relatively un knowns so that their limelight is rarely crowded on.

  • Comment 170, posted at 11.11.15 10:17:13 by The hound Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    The hound
     
  • @The hound (Comment 170) : Im sure i said it but i personally think the same people that appoint the head coach should appoint his assistants but during that process they need to bear in mind synergy so no good pairing guys they know will clash in terms of playing styles and personalities. You bring up Cheika and Larkham…yes they may be rivals but in terms of playing philosophy they are similar. Also Cheika is a strong leader so Larkham knows he is in charge but he also knows that Cheika will let him do his own thing as they have commonality in playing style. If a coach picks his own assistants he will often add more value to synergy benefits than technical ones. Likewise if assistants picked independently more value will be placed on technical ability rather than synergy. There pros and cons to both. I just prefer the independent appointment, especially in a professional environment

  • Comment 171, posted at 11.11.15 10:23:55 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 171) : Or are you saying,in Alistar’s case lets pick the assistants for him,

  • Comment 172, posted at 11.11.15 10:32:22 by The hound Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    The hound
     
  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 165) : I was also going to ask who would be this political appointment. ScheldonK’s argument does not make sense. HM has no trophy to show yet previous guys with trophies got kicked out. Where is the fairness in that?

  • Comment 173, posted at 11.11.15 10:37:40 by GreatSharksays Reply

     
  • @The hound (Comment 172) : I think in anyone’s case his assistants need to be picked. When they interview a guy for the top job surely he sets out his blueprint of playing style etc. So when they pick assistants they must pick guys that will gel with that philosophy but at the same time be able to enhance the players (backs or forwards) technical skills. I think Coetzee would be a good fit as he knows the environment and pressures. Having quality assistants would also give him the tools to succeed. The only problem is guys were very critical of Coetzee whilst at WP bout him playing a defense orientatetd game.

  • Comment 174, posted at 11.11.15 10:40:26 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • @GreatSharksays (Comment 173) : Did you read my reply?

  • Comment 175, posted at 11.11.15 10:41:13 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 163) : I don’t want to enter into this particular debate but I will make one comment. I think Meyer is an exceptional scholar of the game but I think he’s being held back by his conservatism. Every national coach is conservative, it comes with the territory, I get that. Meyer just seemed to edge towards the extreme end of the spectrum as his tenure progressed. Nowhere is this more apparent than his substitution strategy and too a lesser degree, the way he goes about picking his captains (although injury played it’s role there too).

    I don’t get to decide whether he gets reappointed or not and can’t really muster up the energy to debate how justified it may be or not. If Meyer does get reappointed, my main hope is that he works on switching to a less conservative mindset. I’d like to see some positive changes in his approach, like tactical substitutions as opposed to scheduled ones and switching to playing off 10 instead of 9 going into the future. If we’re turning the corner in terms of the SA style of rugby as you mention, I’d like to see a few more Lions player selected as they’re certainly in the driver’s seat going into this particular turn.

    In conclusion, as a supporter I reckon I can make peace with another four years of Meyer, despite my current dislike of his approach, provided we see him evolve along with the game. The sooner, the better.

  • Comment 176, posted at 11.11.15 10:52:28 by vanmartin Reply
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    vanmartin
     
  • @vanmartin (Comment 176) : Good comment…

  • Comment 177, posted at 11.11.15 10:58:39 by pastorshark Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Administrator
    pastorshark
     
  • @vanmartin (Comment 176) : One man’s conservatism is another man’s paranoia,in Meyer’s case he is on the paranoid side.
    To say injury played a role in his choice captains ,is the understatement of the year,everyone of his captains was either injured or in danger of being injured ,by their sheer shelf space lifespan,when he chose them.
    Jean de Villiers was finished before the previous WC and had absolutely no business being in a Bok jersey for the last 5 years.

  • Comment 178, posted at 11.11.15 11:02:10 by The hound Reply
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    The hound
     
  • @vanmartin (Comment 176) : Good points. My interest with Meyer continuing is how he manages the new breed in 2016. Rightly or wrongly he placed a lot of faith in those senior guys he has known for years and trusted. In 2016 he would be faced with a lot of fresh new faces so id be curious to see how he handles them. There are a good group of players and coaching staff at the likes of the Lions, WP and Bulls which should provide a good local player base to choose from. I hope whoever coaches whether it be Meyer, Coetzee, PDV whoever doesnt just try and copy the All Blacks way of playing. Yes there are skills etc we can improve apon but trying to play the exact same way as them will not get us results against them.

  • Comment 179, posted at 11.11.15 11:05:53 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • @The hound (Comment 178) : As much as I respect Jean, I agree with you completely. The broken jaw should have been the absolute last straw. To still insist on taking him along just points back to the conservatism/paranoia argument.

    @SheldonK (Comment 179) : To me it was never about emulating the All Blacks. If we simply want to copy we’re always one step behind. I want to see us innovate and outsmart them on the field.

  • Comment 180, posted at 11.11.15 12:14:38 by vanmartin Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    vanmartin
     
  • @vanmartin (Comment 180) : I agree…we need to play our own way using the strengths we have in the guys we pick. Many many teams, All Blacks included hate playing the Boks…and its not because of the colour of our jerseys

  • Comment 181, posted at 11.11.15 12:17:30 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • @The hound (Comment 178) : A question in hindsight…who would have been your RWC captain? Assuming no players injured at the start of RWC were taken…

  • Comment 182, posted at 11.11.15 12:18:43 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     

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