Pumas show the Boks how it’s done

Written by Stephen Smith (StevieS)

Posted in :Original Content, Springboks on 23 Nov 2015 at 10:11
Tagged with : , , , , , , ,

I was watching the Baabaas play against Argentina and, based on the strength of the Baabaa’s side and the way they gelled against Gloucester, I was sitting back to enjoy a victory for the famous club in their 125th year.

My pre-match prediction seemed justified when Kuridrani opened the scoring off a neat grubber by Lima Sopoaga. But then Argentina hit back with a combination of off-loading, speed, guile and fancy footwork which left me quite breathless and begging for more. Argentina weren’t to disappoint, entering into the spirit of Barbarians games and running the ball from all corners of the field, mixing brute force with sheer ball handling wizardry to entertain the fans who’d pitched up.

I was delighted when Pat Lambie came on for more than 11 minutes, already a good start, and even happier when his good play was richly recognised by the commentators who said he gave shape and purpose to the Baabaa’s backline and they looked a totally different team with him on the field. Also kudos to Tomas, Lood and Cobus on their games. Cobus in particular looked very speedy to the breakdown and Thomas’ substitution lead to a number of tightheads when he was off the field.

I mentioned in a comment earlier that this team will represent Argentina in the Super Rugby competition next year, and they will be my second choice team, along with the Lions, simply because they have won me over with their passion and attitude towards the game.

Now I sobered up very soon as I realised that Heyneke Meyer will in all likelihood be reappointed as Springbok coach in 18 days. This will mean another 4 years of unpalatable Bok rugby to endure as we continue to march steadily backwards in our rugby devolution. The question I keep asking myself is, ‘How can Argentina, after just four years in the rugby Championship, have evolved their game to such a degree, whereas my beloved Boks are going nowhere, and fast?!’

I believe it’s a combination of allowing the Argentineans to express themselves within a set gameplan i.e. playing a smart, heads up game, and also playing a style which suits their naturally exciting temperaments.

How do we turn around the Bokke and what changes can we expect from Meyer, if any?


  • Meyer has shown he’s incapable of evolving his gameplan. While we are on a roll there are some width, but as soon as the pressure is applied or a few games lost he reverts to basic blou bul 1990 rugby.

  • Comment 1, posted at 23.11.15 10:21:54 by Dragnipur Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
  • Got to admit I thought the same thing watching Argentina. I couldn’t believe the skills they were showing with ball in hand. They have turned into a very exciting team, this is probably got to do with a certain Graham Henry being involved. If we do keep Meyer for another 4 years he must realise that he needs some help in this area and include a foreign coach to inject an attacking edge into our game is the way forward.

  • Comment 2, posted at 23.11.15 10:27:03 by Hulk Reply

  • Bit of an unfair combination to unleash on superrugby teams next year i would think! 😀
    But they were tactically naieve in the way they played against the wallabies’ well-structured became a battle of the breakdown and there their lack of breakdown skill was shown up.they brought flair and excitement to rwc’15 ,yet in their last two matches only scored one try.
    Area of improvement imo: the breakdown.(they were up against an aussie team with quality “fetchers”.won’t face pocock,hooper and fardy as a combo too often.)

  • Comment 3, posted at 23.11.15 10:36:08 by 50shadesofshark Reply

  • I think you cant read too much into a Barbarians game due to their risky and loose approach but Argies def did a lot of good stuff. In terms of your question on them evolving in a few years. When they decided to play a more ball in hand approach their initial results were still not good but being Argentina nobody really seemed to mind and now they are playing better rugby and getting good results even though they still arent in the top 3. I just wonder if the SA public and stakeholders would have been as accommodating in those early years when they started their new approach as the Argentina people were…

  • Comment 4, posted at 23.11.15 10:42:04 by SheldonK Reply

  • So Cheika also made the mistake of not playing Lambie from start. Oh when will the coaches ever learn that Pat is the best. Imagine if he could have started in all 50 Bok games at 10…. well then we would have 3 and not the All Blacks.

  • Comment 5, posted at 23.11.15 10:44:37 by ebenp Reply

  • The How do we turn the Boks around and what changes can we expect from HM are questions with unfortunately two completely different answers.

    To Turn the Boks around I believe we need to do a few things.
    1> Get the backline to believe in themselves and allow them to make decisions (I think HM has little faith in his backline which in the past has been a powerful weapon for us). A big part of this is not forcing the scrummy to pass to a pod of forwards everytime so we attack channel 1 ball we need to ask questions of the defence and the Boks do have the ability to ask these questions
    2> A while back the phrase “earn the wide ball” was thrown about by pundits, but now we seem to spend all game earning the wide ball and we never seem to cash it in.
    3> Look at percentage rugby when we need a safe game plan… but not this kick and hope the opposition duffs the catch or the resulting kick (in the professional era the back 3 do not make nearly as many errors as they possibly used to)
    4> (This is probably a combination of 1 & 2) but every move or phase of play actually has strategy behind it and is not just done for the sake of it… a maul is meant to draw in defenders (forwards) and put the opposition backline on the back foot. a ruck is just to draw in defenders if they are spread to wide or if there is no good ball to send down the backline. a grubber is used to get the ball behind a flat defensive line and forces players to sweep rather then defend. a chip does the same as a grubber but is meant to force the opposition to either slow running up or to tire out forwards by forcing them to run back and enter through the gate. Lateral run of a scrummy is meant to drag defenders out leaving gaps for running in on the angle. An offload is used when the opposition counter rucking is strong so by offloading to a supporter you are hoping to break the advantage line quickly before a defensive line can be fixed and making the opposition counter rucking redundant. Nothing in rugby is just by chance it is all done for a reason hoping to force the opposition into making adjustments to their game plan so you can dominate.

    Modern Bok rugby seems to do things for either the wrong or when they see its not working they continue to hit their head against the wall until it does work.

    What changes can we expect from HM?

    None I believe he plays from week to week hoping to force the same half thought out game plan (although i did get excited in the world cup when in the last two games I saw Schalk Burger pass… so we had a forward attacking channel 2). I wont lie being a springbok coach must be the most nerve wracking job in the country but when I hear things like HM banned the use of the offload (which seems to include a correctly timed pass before entering the tackle zone and drawing a defender) I was horrified, if a coach thinks that his players does not have a skill set then either he needs to train it in or get SARU to put pressure on provincial coaches to train it into the players.

    I am hopefully that HM will not only attempt to play a winning (and entertaining… or is that too hopeful) brand of rugby and I hope he keeps one eye on 2019 and bloods enough players over the next two years so that he can confidently say this is his team of 30 players by 2017 (obviously new players may crop up and some players may be injured… but i am hoping he would have enough experienced players as his core by then) so we can walk into the competition expecting a tournament win not just hoping for one.

  • Comment 6, posted at 23.11.15 10:46:49 by Warren Harvey Reply

  • Rumor has Nick Mallett interested in Bok job.

  • Comment 7, posted at 23.11.15 10:51:48 by Uli Boelie Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter
    Uli Boelie
  • @Warren Harvey (Comment 6) : I think the 2 big points from your comment (which was a good one) is that the Boks decision making needs to be better. And then the second is that the coach needs to trust his players more (especially the backs). Better decision making is tough to train as players need to learn from mistakes made at practices/games and that learning curve is dependent on the individual. In terms of the coach trusting players i think HM will be forced to trust the new breed as he placed a lot of faith in the old guys he knew that have now moved on so he will need to find a new group to trust.

  • Comment 8, posted at 23.11.15 10:53:59 by SheldonK Reply

  • @SheldonK (Comment 8) : Pretty much and I agree you cant train instinct… but I find it hard to belive that our players do not have an attacking instinct… I believe that they are forced to ignore their instinct and trained to be drones which carry out moves which fail. How many times have we seen the boks play a stupid move through a game like a running joke in an 80’s movie… Point in case during the Rugby 2015 Schalk got given way to much ball and our backline was starved for ball. This is not Schalks fault but rather the scrummys for either not reading the situation or for blindly following a tactic he was told to play and could not veer from (I choose to believe the latter as I know all three scrummies in the squad are better than misreading the situation_.

  • Comment 9, posted at 23.11.15 11:01:50 by Warren Harvey Reply

  • By all accounts, learning from the Argies how it’s done, (and realising that SA rugby need to evolve its style) will not be high on the Bok list of priorities over the next 4 years. 🙄

  • Comment 10, posted at 23.11.15 11:05:37 by FireTheLooser Reply

  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 7) : Mitchell for Stormers and Mallet for Boks and its my year made!!!

  • Comment 11, posted at 23.11.15 11:23:17 by grant10 Reply

  • @Warren Harvey (Comment 9) : I think the poor decision making again comes from the trust aspect as well as a fear of failure. If i can use a scrummy as an example, he will have a pretty solid game and play the safe options but on one or two occassions he may try and take a slightly risky option and should it not work then the only thing he will hear in the press and from supporters is how his risky decision making is costly and he shouldnt be there etc etc. So the players need to practice making good decisions (easier said than done) and they also need the trust from the coach etc that 1 or 2 decisions that may not come off wont cost them their spot etc.

  • Comment 12, posted at 23.11.15 11:24:56 by SheldonK Reply

  • @SheldonK (Comment 12) : I think you hit the nail on the head. Coaches need to back our players publicly and let them know that taking a risk is not the end of the world.

  • Comment 13, posted at 23.11.15 11:34:45 by StevieS Reply
  • @ebenp (Comment 5) : Lambie came on as a centre. Maybe that is where he should play. That said, he will be at the back of the pecking order there too. Instead of a lot of wishful thinking, and pie in the sky stuff, lets hope that Lambie can have an injury free season to stake a claim.

    The Sharks seem to have a pack that can now at least give him some quality ball. So lets see what he can do. Pollard will also have the benefit of a powerful pack, and with Nollis Marais, seemingly also embracing a more ball in hand approach, we will have an interesting contest between the two front runners.

    The Bulls have signed some promising young players. One I noted with interest is young Le Roux Roets 205 cm and 139 kg’s and only 21.

  • Comment 14, posted at 23.11.15 11:35:23 by KingCheetah Reply

  • If Meyer is coach again I will NOT waste my time watching Springbok matches UNLESS LAMBIE is given a good shot at No 10 in consecutive games and with a decent scrumhalf !!!!!!!!

  • Comment 15, posted at 23.11.15 11:42:03 by Den Reply

  • @Den (Comment 15) : But what if Robert DuPreez is the form flyhalf in Super rugby?

  • Comment 16, posted at 23.11.15 11:43:03 by SheldonK Reply

  • @Den (Comment 15) : Ah the scrum half thing again? Lets also demand that Lambie gets a proper scrum, and world class centres. Funny no other flyhallf seems to need preferential circumstances to excel.

    Come on, Lambie has an equal shot of staking a claim. And he has the whole year to do it. Pollard will be playing with van Syl/Paige as his SH. Lambie has Reinach (his usual SH) or Claassens. All fair and square.

    You never hear anyone demanding that Pollard should have this or that. It makes me wonder why Lambie is perceived to need all this help. Surely a player with his talent can do it without all this clamour from his fans?

  • Comment 17, posted at 23.11.15 11:47:11 by KingCheetah Reply

  • @SheldonK (Comment 16) : Lol, or any of Zeilinga, Marnitz or anyone else. What if Lambie doesn’t even make the starting berth for the Sharks. Maybe Curwin Bosch or Radebe steals the thunder.

  • Comment 18, posted at 23.11.15 11:50:28 by KingCheetah Reply

  • @KingCheetah (Comment 14) : last i checked he was 2.04m and 131kg.there are youngsters around if you willing to look around (or even just use google!).

  • Comment 19, posted at 23.11.15 11:53:51 by 50shadesofshark Reply

  • @KingCheetah (Comment 18) : Such nonsense you speak.. Nobody but Lambie will ever play 10 for the Sharks whilst he is living in Durban. And if they do the Sharks will lose and management should be fired. Radebe/April/ Bosch are nice to have for a while but all will move on in next couple years

  • Comment 20, posted at 23.11.15 11:57:04 by SheldonK Reply

  • @50shadesofshark (Comment 19) : Yes, which is better. Lood was rather sluggish and lethargic when he weighed 125. He is in much better condition and his work rate is huge. I was watching him in the baabaas game, and he was again a huge presence in the match. Good handling skills too. We have such a great future ahead if the right players are groomed.

  • Comment 21, posted at 23.11.15 12:00:18 by KingCheetah Reply

  • @KingCheetah (Comment 14) : news of another signing for the sharks @robdylan. Just waiting for the article.

  • Comment 22, posted at 23.11.15 12:01:44 by 50shadesofshark Reply

  • @SheldonK (Comment 20) : 😆 Sorry boss. Just chuckle that people actually think we can demand preferential treatment for any player. Why such a player should even require divine intervention is beyond me.

    As I taught my sons, when they were competitive in martial arts. Some times you will lose a fight, that you may think you have won convincingly. Life isn’t fair always, so deal with it, and move on. It was something they needed to learn and understand.

  • Comment 23, posted at 23.11.15 12:02:38 by KingCheetah Reply

  • @50shadesofshark (Comment 22) : That is good news. Bulls have been flying under the radar, but they seem to have a pretty decent squad together.

  • Comment 24, posted at 23.11.15 12:04:23 by KingCheetah Reply

  • @50shadesofshark (Comment 24) : I haven’t seen him play, he might be well conditioned even at that weight.

  • Comment 25, posted at 23.11.15 12:05:40 by KingCheetah Reply

  • @KingCheetah (Comment 26) : true.

  • Comment 26, posted at 23.11.15 12:12:46 by 50shadesofshark Reply

  • @KingCheetah (Comment 23) : haha yeh i too have to remember this is Sharksworld so ‘some’ bias exists. Im keen to see how all the guys go in 2016 with some good coaches at local level

  • Comment 27, posted at 23.11.15 12:14:41 by SheldonK Reply

  • @KingCheetah (Comment 21) : I saw handling the ball much like Brodie Retallick does for the ABs…very promising sign. I also watched Victor as im not sure how much i will see him play in future and the guy definitely makes a lot of tackles. Yes he may not smash a guy back etc but he brings a lot of guys down.

  • Comment 28, posted at 23.11.15 12:17:16 by SheldonK Reply

  • @KingCheetah (Comment 17) : I think the point regarding scrumhalf is valid however the sentiment and wording could be better and has been clouded by this being a very pro-shark forum. The term I believe we are all trying to express is “the same” scrumhalf. On that note the same inside center would also be preferential

  • Comment 29, posted at 23.11.15 12:29:21 by byron Reply

  • As much as the Argies looked great. The match must be put in context. Yes there were alot of class players in the baabaas starting side but they were exposed by the complete lack of game time. Their defensive structures were non existant and they conceeded 3-4 tries on the counter attack.

    Add that to the 2 tries that Victor gave away because he cant draw and pass and youve got your result.

    Having had that rant – a really awesome game to watch as a neutral spectator. Great advert for rugby.

  • Comment 30, posted at 23.11.15 12:35:42 by byron Reply

  • @byron (Comment 29) : Yes, but somehow that is unlikely to happen. The guys will have to duel it out at Super rugby level. The one that impresses the most will have the inside lane, the other the bench. Harsh, but it is what it is.

  • Comment 31, posted at 23.11.15 13:07:36 by KingCheetah Reply

  • @KingCheetah (Comment 32) : with the new superrugby format,though,3 sa teams will play the nz teams and the other 3 will play the aus teams.could make the selection process interesting.

  • Comment 32, posted at 23.11.15 13:14:49 by 50shadesofshark Reply

  • @KingCheetah (Comment 31) : I’m a little more optimistic than you in this regard … 3 words “Long term injury” – rugby is a contact sport!

  • Comment 33, posted at 23.11.15 13:31:45 by byron Reply

  • @50shadesofshark (Comment 32) : Yes throw in the kamikazes, and an almost full strength Argie test team, it is going to be challenging. Aussie conference might be perceived to be weaker, but there has been quite an exodus of top Kiwi players to Europe too. The Crusaders especially will have quite a new squad.

  • Comment 34, posted at 23.11.15 13:36:41 by KingCheetah Reply

  • @byron (Comment 33) : I hope not. Will be unfortunate.

  • Comment 35, posted at 23.11.15 13:38:00 by KingCheetah Reply

  • @KingCheetah (Comment 23) : I dont think people are asking for preferential treatment for Lambie… they just want a selection which would set the backline off… just mentally replace *LAMBIE* with *a flyhalf that runs the back line*… no point in getting flyhalf that runs the back line if he is going to never receive ball (either over use of the box kick or over pass to forwards) also no point in getting a flyhalf that runs the back line if we just get crash ball orientated centers who are selected for defense not attack or a blend of the two.

    And unfortunately Lambie doesn’t have the same chances as he is perceived as an off the bench alternative to Steyn and Pollard to put on the field at 11 min into the second half no matter what the circumstances. basically a modern day Brent Russell.

    But I agree with you that the team needs to make do with the 15 on the field as far as the game plan is concerned and so far under HM that has brought us a respectable 67% win ratio… i just feel that it could be higher but then as a Rugby supporter I guess you always expect more.

  • Comment 36, posted at 23.11.15 14:05:17 by Warren Harvey Reply

  • @Warren Harvey (Comment 36) : We all want the Boks to play winning and entertaining rugby. That said, I have never come across such blind infatuation. I also rate Lambie as a fine player. I am just not so blinded by the bias that is prevalent. As SheldonK says, it is a Sharks blog, so understandable. I have never before seen fans ask for such unique set of circumstances to promote a player. Everyone else have to just get by and earn it.

    First Hm was blamed because he preferred Pollard. They will tell you that Lambie never got a fair chance. Yet Lambie started his pro career when Divvy was coach. He preferred Morne Steyn. Lambie was 20 when he made his debut November 2010. When HM took over, Steyn started slipping. HM then tried Goosen successfully, till untimely injuries ruined his career. Lambie played FH on the end of year tour in 2102. But HM still opted for Morne Steyn.

    Then Pollard made his debut, aged 20. He became HM’s preferred choice.
    Then they started blaming the fact that Lambie always had to play with Ruan, and that is why Pollard looked better. When i pointed out that prior to the WC Pollard had played with the same SH that Lambie had plus he had played more with Ruan. Then Reinach was blamed. It must be true, I don’t think Pollard has played with reinach.

    Then i was told that when Divvie didn’t pick Lambie, it was because it was still the beginning of his test career. Which is fair, it was, he was 20. Which is exactly how old Pollard was. He just managed to convince the coach that he had more to offer. Lambie failed to convince the coach. in 2010, in 2012, and in 2015.

    So now to ensure that the stupid coach realises his mistake. We need to pair Lambie with the right SH, though the Lambie fans will be divided as to who that is. Pollard is by no means the finished article. But there is no denying his pedigree.

    He was the player of the tournament in the Junior WC, this wasn’t awarded to him by the partisan HM. He was second highest points scorer at the WC. He has already scored 189 test points, which is just behind Joost. and not far behind Stransky and Braam van Straaten.

    right or wrong, Pollard is the incumbent, and Lambie will have to unseat him on the field of play. No lobbying by fans will change that.

  • Comment 37, posted at 23.11.15 14:55:38 by KingCheetah Reply

  • @KingCheetah (Comment 37) : Amazed at how you come to the conclusion” I also rate Lambie as a fine player.”
    You could have fooled me.

  • Comment 38, posted at 23.11.15 15:01:31 by The hound Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    The hound
  • @The hound (Comment 38) : Lol well said.

    @KingCheetah (Comment 37) : I don’t think it’s an argument about the SH Lambie is paired with, I think it’s the fact that Pollard can play a terrible game and keeps getting picked, whereas Lambie performs well one week and is dropped the next. Or he keeps performing well off the bench but is limited to 10min cameos. Don’t forget who won us those games against Australia and New Zealand on consecutive weekends.

    Don’t forget, we were winning against Japan before Pollard took over for the last 30min.

  • Comment 39, posted at 23.11.15 15:09:27 by StevieS Reply
  • @The hound (Comment 38) : Well I do. And it is not a conclusion, it is what I think. Surely I know what I feel, think etc. He is solid, cool and mostly composed. Just because I don’t share the view that Pat has been hard done by, doesn’t mean I don’t rate him. It is just unfortunate that he has earned the tag of Mr Reliable and super sub, rather than Mr Prolific,

    Lambie is one of those players that everyone wants on their team sheet, but not everyone will start him with all things considered.
    I would have had no problem if HM had started with Lambie either. There isn’t much separating them. Both have qualities that can be invaluable.

    Lambie is maybe just less physicallly imposing which swings the scale Pollards way. Fact is both made their debut aged 20. Pollards circumstances were just more favourable in that a void at 10 existed, whereas Lambie faced a settled incumbent.

    Pollard used his chances. Not saying Lambie didn’t, he just had different circumstances. That is life.

    So just because I offer an alternative view to the rabid fan club, doesn’t make me anti Lambie. I was very pro Goosen too, and even then I wouldn’t have minded if Lambie got the nod.

  • Comment 40, posted at 23.11.15 15:12:35 by KingCheetah Reply

  • @KingCheetah (Comment 40) : Heaven forbid if Elton Janjies and Rob DuPreez have better super rugby campaigns than both Lambie and Pollard…then what??

  • Comment 41, posted at 23.11.15 15:15:25 by SheldonK Reply

  • @KingCheetah (Comment 40) : Thanks for clearing that up,now I am even more confused than before.
    But seriuosly do you think Goosen is washed up and out of it at what 21,22,

  • Comment 42, posted at 23.11.15 15:23:40 by The hound Reply
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    The hound
  • @StevieS (Comment 39) : Yes you are right. I mean the FH is the one who determines wether we win or lose right. So why bother to pick the other 22 players, as Lambie can just do it all by himself. Give the man a cloak, and we are sorted.

    As SheldonK says, heaven forbid that R du Preez, or anyone else has a better rugby campaign than Lambie. It is tough on the young an that he started his career at the wrong time. He won’t be the first and he won’t be the last. Poor Bismarck was in John Smit’s shadow. That is life. You can sugar coat it all you like, it is what is

  • Comment 43, posted at 23.11.15 15:24:35 by KingCheetah Reply

  • @The hound (Comment 42) : Lol, I don’t think he is washed up. Think the France move is good for him. HM erred in pushing him to fast. The kid had just come back from a major knee injury. he had hardly played two complete halves for the Cheetahs when HM thrust him in the frontline.

    I think he can find his confidence in france, and return a better player in two years time. If he chooses. Or he can just earn megabucks in France. If he comes back in 2018, he will be 25 and a lot wiser. his Racing contract expires in 2017. I hear he still does good things, playing mostly 15

  • Comment 44, posted at 23.11.15 15:29:48 by KingCheetah Reply

  • @KingCheetah (Comment 44) : Goosen is currently playing some very good rugby at 15. His team is not the most consistent though which doesnt help him.

  • Comment 45, posted at 23.11.15 15:41:44 by SheldonK Reply

  • @StevieS (Comment 39) : He scores a heck of a lot of points for someone that plays so poorly?
    I agree he is prone to making some shockers. If we don’t allow a youngster to make mistakes and learn, we will never groom any player. Just on here the Pollard mistakes are magnified, and the Lambie bloopers are glossed over. I am just the voice of reason 😛

    Seriously though Lambie is a lot more consistent, and does manage the game better. That said the potential for Pollard to grow his game is immense. And as far as potential to grow is concerned, which player can grow more, and ultimately offer the most. Lambie sin’t going to become physically more imposing. Pollard can however acquire the astuteness required to better control the match. He can learn to make e better decisions.

    I am just happy to have two contrasting 10’s that can really push each other. I really don’t care who plays 10, as long as we start playing a better brand of rugby, and start winning consistently.

  • Comment 46, posted at 23.11.15 15:44:13 by KingCheetah Reply

  • @SheldonK (Comment 45) : Agreed. The way Goosen used to play at 10, was always going to result in injuries. Flying into rucks with reckless abandon, making big tackles. Not conducive to injury free rugby lol

  • Comment 47, posted at 23.11.15 15:46:21 by KingCheetah Reply

  • @KingCheetah (Comment 47) : Goosen’s talent exceeded his conditioning. He had the talent to play at that level but his body wasnt yet conditioned too. I saw him play 10 whilst at school and he was really good. I then watched him play i think a vodacom cup match or something at 15 and then thought that is probably where he needs to be playing his senior rugby

  • Comment 48, posted at 23.11.15 15:55:21 by SheldonK Reply

  • Bulls training squad. Money does help lol. Bulls targeting Bhol, Agaba, and Mahuza

    Bulls squad:

    Forwards: Trevor Nyakane, Pierre Schoeman, Lizo Gqoboka, Dean Greyling, Nqoba Mxoli, Morné Mellett, Marcel van der Merwe, Werner Kruger, Dayan van der Westhuizen, Entienne Swanepoel, Adriaan Strauss, Bandise Maku, Corniel Els, Jaco Visagie, Callie Visagie, RG Snyman, Jason Jenkins, Jannes Kirsten, Marvin Orie, Nicholaas Janse van Rensburg, Le Roux Roets, Irne Herbst, Grant Hattingh, Lappies Labuschagne, Roelof Smit, Ruan Steenkamp, Deon Stegmann, Freddy Ngoza, Nick de Jager, Arno Botha, Clyde Davids, Hanro Liebenberg.

    Backs: Rudy Paige, Ivan van Zyl, Piet van Zyl, Tian Schoeman, Francois Brummer, Joshua Stander, Handré Pollard, Burger Odendaal, Jan Serfontein, Daniel Kriel, JT Jackson, Dries Swanepoel, JJ Engelbrecht, Jesse Kriel, Jamba Ulengo, Jade Stigling, Kafense Mahlo, Travis Ismaiel, Luther Obi, Bjorn Basson, Duncan Matthews, Divan Rossouw, Warrick Gelant.

  • Comment 49, posted at 23.11.15 16:38:25 by KingCheetah Reply

  • @KingCheetah (Comment 50) : agaba will be a certain starter at the kings.
    same goes for obi and rugby messed up big time stepping in so late as they did.seems like there was no communication with the kings players and/or agents.

  • Comment 50, posted at 23.11.15 16:47:36 by 50shadesofshark Reply

  • @50shadesofshark (Comment 50) : Yes, the big fish as far as the bulls are concerned must gcqoboka. They have shored up their front row.

  • Comment 51, posted at 23.11.15 16:51:33 by KingCheetah Reply

  • @KingCheetah (Comment 52) : nqoba mxoli (21 years old) went to westville in dbn but didnt rep any kzn schools teams.goes to the bulls and makes 2014 sa u20 squad.and the varsity dream team this season.

  • Comment 52, posted at 23.11.15 16:56:45 by 50shadesofshark Reply

  • @50shadesofshark (Comment 52) : It happens. Though for the Cheetahs its normally the converse :mrgreen:
    They make a name at the Cheetahs, get snaffled by the Bulls and go backwards lol.
    Think Kennedy tsimba, Piet van Zyl, Francois Venter, William Small-Smith, and Dries Swanepoel. Swanepoel is only now making waves.

  • Comment 53, posted at 23.11.15 17:10:17 by KingCheetah Reply

  • @KingCheetah (Comment 53) : Cheetahs and Bulls (of old) does not play the same type of rugby so it will be difficult for players to move over and just perform especially backs.

  • Comment 54, posted at 23.11.15 23:13:55 by JD Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
  • I wouldn’t read too much into this game. The Barbarians’ defense was woeful.

  • Comment 55, posted at 24.11.15 04:29:38 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
  • @KingCheetah (Comment 49) : Some good calibre players but overall a pretty young squad that hasnt been tested in super rugby yet.

  • Comment 56, posted at 24.11.15 08:03:11 by SheldonK Reply

  • @SheldonK (Comment 56) : That seems to me prevalent throughout the squads. The post world cup year syndrome. I think the list of experienced super rugby players that have left the competition to ply their trade, and in many cases earn their retirement is going to be pretty staggering.

    Just a quick scan shows 24 Aussie regulars, 32 NZ players, and some notable retirees, and about 27.

    That is quite a few spots to make up. Many of those players were stalwarts in their respective franchises. So it will change the dynamics for sure. Everyone is going on about the “weakness” of the pool playing the Aussie sides, but they may not be that weak.

  • Comment 57, posted at 24.11.15 09:36:37 by KingCheetah Reply

  • @KingCheetah (Comment 43) : @KingCheetah (Comment 46) : Lol you know what I mean. He scored that try vs Aussie and the penalty against NZ.

    I appreciate you recognise his talents, I’m just saying I wish HM did as well in terms of more game time.

    On the plus side, with RDP, Pollard, Lambie, Jantjies, Boshoff and Zeilinga we seem to have an exciting crop of young, talented 10’s for the 2016 season. Now we just need to hope the coaches will allow them to express themselves.

  • Comment 58, posted at 24.11.15 09:52:25 by StevieS Reply
  • @KingCheetah (Comment 57) : Yeh most definitely is a theme through out all the squads. Will be interesting to see how all the new breed match up

  • Comment 59, posted at 24.11.15 09:58:15 by SheldonK Reply

  • @StevieS (Comment 58) : There are, and quite a few youngsters that will soon start pushing hard. Brandon Thompson, Curwin Bosch and Josh Stander come to mind.

  • Comment 60, posted at 24.11.15 10:14:28 by KingCheetah Reply

  • @KingCheetah (Comment 61) : do you have a list of the u19 players at the cheetahs for 2016?

  • Comment 61, posted at 24.11.15 10:31:22 by 50shadesofshark Reply

  • @50shadesofshark (Comment 61) : Nope, not as yet. News is hard to come by.

  • Comment 62, posted at 24.11.15 12:30:22 by KingCheetah Reply


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