I’ve been back and watched the weekend’s game a number of times over now, trying to form my own views about how various aspects of the play went down. While Kings number 5 JC Astle is rightfully being given a lot of praise for running the lineouts for his side, I do think some of the talk about how well he managed to disrupt the Sharks at this phase might be a little overblown.
Credit where it’s due, though. Astle did very well for the Kings and they took all bar two of their own throws in the game. There was one skew throw and one ball that was successfully tapped back by Hyron Andrews on the Kings’ throw (admittedly, that ball was immediately knocked by Franco Marais so there was no net gain to the Sharks). Apart from that, Astle and Steven Sykes took a lot of good, clean ball for the hosts.
Looking at the Sharks, though, I have made the following brief notes after watching their lineouts in the game:
35 secs, Marais to Oosthuizen, clean take at the front 1/1
5:30 Marais to Oosthuizen, clean take at the front 2/2
12:30 Marais to Oosthuizen, beaten by Astle at the front 2/3
13:15 Marais to Andrews, Astle in the way but Andrews manages to tap it back 3/4
16:13 Marais to Oosthuizen, clean take at the front (led to Ndungane try) 4/5
18:45 Marais to Dan du Preez, clean take at the back 5/6
32:55: Marais skew throw (5/7)
35:45 Marais to Oosthuizen, knocks at the front (5/8)
46:30 Marais to Dan du Preez, clean take at the back 6/9 (led to Jordaan try)
63:40 Cooper to van der Walt, clean take at the back 7/10
64:35 Cooper to van der Walt, Engelbrecht interferes but van der Walt manages to tap back cleanly 8/11
65:20 Cooper to Andrews, clean take in the middle 9/12
68/10 Cooper to Andrews, knocked at the back 9/13
69:55 Cooper to Oosthuizen, clean take at the front (no contest) 10/14
70:55 Cooper to McDuling, clean take in the middle (Coetzee disallowed try) 11/15
My analysis shows that the Sharks certainly didn’t do terribly at this phase, although they would want to increase the accuracy ahead of next week’s game. Franco Marais threw in 9 times for a 67% successful return, with Kyle Cooper doing even better with 5 of his 6 throws working out for the Sharks. Possession wins went to Etienne Oosthuizen (4), Hyron Andrews (2), Dan du Preez (2), Philip van der Walt (2) and Dave McDuling (1).
The skew throw was obviously an individual error from Marais, which we can obviously forgive. The steal at the third lineot was more of a system failure, with the Sharks calling exactly the same ball at the previous two lineouts. Astle had clearly spotted the pattern and knew where the ball was going to go, hence his ability to outjump Oosthuizen for the clean take at the front. Individual errors from the locks in the air account for the other two misses, rather than anything resembling a clean “steal” by the Kings.
If anything, we could perhaps accuse Andrews (who was presumably calling the phase) of not varying the options enough and of not calling enough ball onto himself, but it’s really not like there was some major issue that the young man needed to address. As I said, the Sharks did commit some individual errors in the lineout, but I think those who are claiming that Astle in some way “schooled” the Sharks should take another look at the tape.
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When you put it like that…I only watched the game once,but remember it worse than it actually was then 😉
I think my biggest concern regarding our lineout is this – if it at times struggled against this Kings team, how will it go against the top dogs in this competition?
We were 13th over all in terms of lineout%. So not the worst, but not great either.
I missed a few, it seems.
Might have to edit his article.
@robdylan (Comment 4) : Still, remember that Astle was part of the setup and his move to the kings(loan) did not happen all that long ago, so he might have known what call is where also
@robdylan (Comment 4) : Stats have us at 73.3% so you’re not far off.
apologies guys – I had to do a quick edit (and minor climb down here)
@robdylan (Comment 7) : Astle is only on loan to the Kings if I recall correctly? If he performed admirably against us I only see that as a positive.
Also, if there was a game in which to make mistakes and learn from them, it was this one against easier opposition, at the start of the season.
@vanmartin (Comment 8) : Exactly, he is our play.
And correct rather make the mistakes in a game where you go on to win by 30 something points rather than against the tougher teams.
@FireTheLooser (Comment 2) : valid point.lewies and uanivi should also be both available for selection.it is good andrews is getting sr gametime and he should learn and grow.he is still u21 and the team is also imo not yet title challengers.it is not being negative,but honest.i want to see how much the team grows this year.
@vanmartin (Comment 8) : on loan,but also “released”.
No line-out throws to jldp?
@robdylan: think ss might have it right re: jldp’s height 1.91m.saw photo of him next to philip vd walt(1.94m) and seems shorter.both players upright.
@50shadesofshark (Comment 11) : Released from the Super Rugby squad (which is the only way a player can be loaned I’d guess) but still on contract with the Sharks last I read.
@vanmartin (Comment 14) : he was one of the players “released” by the sharks (with wentzel,van tonder,etc) last december,but still being paid by the union until their contracts expire or they find contracts at other unions.he is on-loan to the kings,but was in effect told not part of the plans going forward.
@50shadesofshark (Comment 15) : exactly. So while the Sharks could, I guess,call him back after Super Rugby, say sorry and offer to then extend his contract, why would he agree?
@50shadesofshark (Comment 15) : I think that announcement was not done properly, either a case of bad wording or bad understanding. I think they were all players that were not part of this years Super Rugby setup. I don’t think they were all necessarily players that will never put on a Sharks jersey again.
@robdylan (Comment 16) : Money, more than the Kings can afford (which isn’t much)
Some perspective perhaps: imagine wentzel vs sharks line-out this past weekend?
@Seth101 (Comment 17) : no,that was what was said.they can use the gym facilities,though.
@robdylan (Comment 16) : exactly.sharks might have shot themselves in the foot there.
@50shadesofshark (Comment 15) : @robdylan (Comment 16) : Okay, thanks for the clarification on that point. That probably explains why he was out to prove a point.
This was probably the weakest line out we will face in the whole competition,and at best we did kinda alright.
The Argies this week will be a better test, they kept Lood de Jager very quiet.
Oosthuizen and Andrews don’t really inspire confidence,and up against guys like Sam Whitlock,Brad Retallick,and even Ethebeth and du Toit,we could be in serious shit.
I genuinely think we should give Andrews a break guys. Hell, he is 20 years old and started his first ever senior match. We all scream “back the youth” but then want to turf them at the first possible opportunity.
@robdylan (Comment 24) : agree.if we are going to chop-and-change for everything ,then how will players grow at this level?lewies and botha(when fit) are still first choice ahead of andrews,and keen to see uanivi.this is a long comp.need to be smart how we use players.
@The hound (Comment 23) : minus lavanini.
@robdylan (Comment 24) : that’s the problem! If you play him you need to back him for at least 4-5 games before deciding if it was worth it. Line outs was not good bit can’t blame Andrews for poor lineout work by hookers. For me he did not have a bad game and should only get better.
@50shadesofshark (Comment 25) : he is actually older than Jean -Luc who also played his first super rugby game,and was man of the [email protected]JD (Comment 27) : You don’t play a guy into form in super rugby,he either cuts it or doesn’t,nobody should play super rugby till they are ready,and the worst thing for me is holding onto a player week after week hoping he is going to do it,remember S,p Marais.Nobody is saying Andrews had a bad game just stating that he will be seriously wanting against better oposition,and can we afford to take that chance.
@The hound (Comment 28) : Jean Luc has a full Currie Cup season behind him. This was Hyron’s first first-class game.
@The hound (Comment 28) : sharks no5-locks in order of how i rate them: lewies and botha(injured),uanivi (who for some reason was loaned to the kings but then recalled),andrews.all 4 these players need to be played this season.with the injury to botha, lewies perhaps not completely match-fit yet for the kings game,and uanivi not being back long enough in dbn to be included,andrews was given no5 start.with 4 no5 locks it will be wise to play all 4,especially considering we only have 3 fit at the moment.sure,i agree,we cant expect andrews to dominate either retallick or etzebeth,but both are no4s.and not even matfield in his prime would dominate those 2 anywhere,except [email protected]: do you think the sharks can win 2016 sr?or do you think we can build enough experience and confidence this season to challenge for the title next season?imo for this season:lets win everything at home and aim for 2 away wins.but lets fight with everything we have in every game.i will settle for those 9 wins and a team striving to win in all 15.
we aren’t going to win the trophy this year, guys. Come on. Get real.
It’s all about moulding the squad, the skills and the confidence to make a big push in 2017
@robdylan (Comment 31) :
http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/SuperRugby/kings-have-thrown-us-to-the-dogs-20160229
You read this?
Andrews had a good enough game,but more importantly,he got some great experience. He might not be the best 5 in the squad, but he is an excellent part of a SQUAD that we will need if we ever want to win the trophy. I really didn’t think he had the goods to play SR this year,but I was wrong. I will rather back him above uanivi,az he is good enough and he is a shark. He came through the system,put in some hard yards and shown on saturday he iz not there to carry the tackle bags this year.
@The hound (Comment 23) : Astle is statistically probably one of the best lineout jumpers out there. I remember when he did play for the sharks there were a couple of games where he won 4-5 lineouts.
@robdylan (Comment 24) : Can you think of a better game to give the boy a start. I think the sharks management did well here.
@Seth101 (Comment 32) : I have. My heart breaks for those guys
@HeinF (Comment 33) : I was saying to my dad, the kid has so much Albert van den Berg to him it’s scary. Those longs ams and big hands just get into all sorts of places, disrupting rucks, making crazy steals, etc. It’s not just about the lineouts.
@robdylan (Comment 31) : There were incidents in that game that could have you regretting your very Gary Gold like words,the combination of Claassens with Willie le Roux,Mvovu,Jordan and Esterhuizen is awesome.The potential there is so huge,Add Lambie to that.
The journalist in the Sunday Times yesterday wrote a sentence that made me smile.He said if you were to cross Willem Alberts with Marcel Coetzee,add a bit of Kankowski ,then you start to appreciate what the Sharks have,and then you multiply it by two.
Add Thomas,Chillily all fired up,Lewies and Botha and you still think we have no chance.
@Seth101 (Comment 32) : SP deserves a lot better than that. Does he not have a legal case against the Kings and therefore SARU – having a signed contract?
@robdylan (Comment 37) : True! Like I said,had to admit I was wrong after saturday, the kid has a good head on his shoulders. We forget how much is actually expected from him by calling the lineouts as such a young player,but he did it better than a lot of older guys. Put in some good tackles,ruck hits and carries. He will impress a lot more people one year from now and press a few people for that starting 5 jersey
@The hound (Comment 38) : mate, I don’t think we will win it and that’s for two big reasons:
1) the draw makes it virtually impossible
2) I genuinely feel this squad, though brimming with young talent, is a year out from being genuine contenders.
I do not disagree with you even one tiny bit about the talent and potential of these players, with the du Preez twins the stuff of every red blooded man’s rugby wet dreams
@Bokhoring (Comment 39) : the wheels of justice turn slowly. Lawyers fees tend to accrue far more rapidly and are payable immediately. Seeking justice through the courts is a rich man’s game.
@robdylan (Comment 29) : I wanted to say how the Sharks weren’t smart to throw him into senior rugby at SR level…bu then again, a game against this Kings team is probably the best learning school for him.
So when viewed as developing the player, then we should probably gloss over Hyron’s mistakes – and chalk it up to school fees.
@Seth101 (Comment 32) : 😯 😥
@Seth101 (Comment 32) : wonder if there was a contract from the sharks to sp?almost sounds like there might have been?glad to hear he is being allowed medical treatment at the sharks.
@Seth101 (Comment 32) : really sad and I really hope and pray somehow the players get other employment and salaries!!!!
@The hound (Comment 28) : I’m not saying he must be played into form I think he has potential and deserve at least another few games whilst players like Lewie’s get to full match fitness.
@50shadesofshark (Comment 45) : I’m in two minds. SP is useful, but I’m not sold on his attitude. Strikes me as a guy who’s going to mope and bitch if he doesn’t get picked every week and we just cannot afford that in this squad right now. Even if we do need more options at 15.
@The hound (Comment 28) : Hyron stepped up because everyone else was injured. My view is that he did well enough to warrant more game time, if not immediately this week, then at least sometime within the next few weeks. I’d far rather start with him at 5 than McDuling, for instance.
If Stephan is fit this week, probably a different story.
@robdylan (Comment 48) : rhyno smith?
@50shadesofshark (Comment 45) : @robdylan (Comment 48) : although I really like SP and my hard bleeds for him and all the other players going through this I don’t think he will add a lot that the Sharks do not have.
Must say I really admire the Sharks for allowing him to use their facilities to recover.
Have we signed joe pietersen till the end of this sr season?think rhyno smith might be contracted to the leopards,so wont be available for cc if sharks wanted to sign him.but he was part of sr pre-season training squad and then released for varsity cup.
Kearsney’s total number of Springboks to date (3) will double with these Du Preez boys.
@50shadesofshark (Comment 52) : really hope Sharks signed Joe for at least till after next years Super rugby!
@Kiss_the_Gold (Comment 53) : not sure about Rob but the twins are really going to be strong contenders in future!
@JD (Comment 51) : I think a back three of SP, Willie and Mvovs could wreak havoc.
Jeez enough about SP at the Sharks already. The guy has the mental game of an apple crumble. He flopped at the Sharks at SR level. Move on!
@Spirit of Rugby (Comment 56) : Sharks still have Sithole, Wandile and JPP to cover back three. Really can’t see SP being selected above any of the current 6 players that Sharks have available in the back three.
@JD (Comment 54) : : signed till the end of 2017 cc season.
@JD (Comment 58) : jpp leaving sharks at the end of the season.sithole and mjekevu both wingers.
@Kiss_the_Gold (Comment 57) : couldn’t agree more,we are well covered in the backline, if JPP has come back with last years attitude,I think we can do without him as well.
Le Roux ,Sithole,Mvovu,at the back,Claassens ,Lambie Jordan and Esterhuizen.
The last time we had it this good,was Joubert,Cabose,Watson at the back,Putt,Honibal,Muir and Pieter Muller.
@The hound (Comment 61) : Thompson, Small, Lacroix, man, we’ve been blessed with some awesome players!
@Kiss_the_Gold (Comment 57) : Must agree, hate how he is being treated, but we can’t have a player who is on our books who is not up to standard. Th crazy thing is he is actually better than a lot of the contracted Kings players.
@the ko (Comment 62) : Don’t forget Mr Halstead,
@50shadesofshark (Comment 59) : must say that’s good news. I’m really glad he’s at the Sharks really liked him while he played for WP. Quality player.
@50shadesofshark (Comment 60) : still Mvovo, Odwa and Joe to cover 15 at the Sharks. Think there’s enough cover without SP.
@Seth101 (Comment 63) : personally I can’t believe he’s not playing Super rugby for the Kings. But don’t know if he should play for Sharks just something seems to be missing when he’s playing for the Sharks.
@The hound (Comment 61) : @the ko (Comment 62) : @Henkb (Comment 64) : guys way to many players to mention: Putt, Michalak, Stransky, RdP, Barrit, etc!!!!
@Seth101 (Comment 32) : @robdylan (Comment 36) : The Bulls have offered SP a three month contract according to Brenden Nel:
“@SPMarais training with the Bulls at the moment, has a 3 month contract with them. Good to see he isn’t team-less anymore.”