Bothma to join Bulls

Written by Rob Otto (robdylan)

Posted in :Bulls, Original Content, Sharks, Super Rugby on 21 Mar 2016 at 10:44
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Morning media reports appear to confirm a story we heard on Friday; Renaldo Bothma is set to join the Bulls on a long term deal and could be available to them for Super Rugby duty in a week or so.

The 26-year-old loose forward certainly can’t be accused of letting the grass grow under his feet. Bothma, who started life at the Sharks Academy moved to the Lions to complete his junior rugby stint before moving on to the Leopards (briefly) and then Pumas. It was this latter move to Nelspruit that saw him finally break through, establishing himself as a critical component in a fast yet powerful back row used to good effect by uncompromising Jimmy Stonehouse. His signing by the Sharks – on a Super Rugby-only contract ahead of the 2015 season – was seen as a coup at the time and he went on to represent the team 15 times in Super Rugby before leaving to join Toyota Verblitz in Japan during the Currie Cup season.

He is also a capped Namibian international.

The Sharks’ decision to let him go – a good six months before the end of his Super Rugby contract – is one that arguably makes sense, given how things have moved on in Durban over the last year. While it’s hardly the players’ fault that he returned from Japan carrying an injury that has seen him on the sidelines for the last month, the Sharks certainly must feel just a little aggrieved at just how many medical bills they’re being asked to pick up at the moment. With an absolute glut of talented (and mostly home grown) loose forwards waiting in the wings – and the likes of Jean-Luc and Daniel du Preez showing just how ready they are for Super Rugby – you could forgive Gary Gold and his team for asking where exactly Bothma is likely to fit in when he is available. Since he is still a contracted Pumas player, he is not able to play in the Currie Cup qualifying round for the Sharks XV, making him a rather expensive passenger so long as he’s not part of the Super Rugby match 23.

Running the rule over the list of loose forwards in Durban is an interesting exercise. I’ll include a list at the end of the article, but I believe the decision to start letting go of players like Bothma shows a real willingness to rather invest in local youth. This move, to me, says a fair bit more about the Bulls than it does the Sharks. Assuming Bothma comes into the starting side, that will mean a first-choice pack containing just two players who have made their way up through the ranks at Loftus (RG Snyman and Arno Botha) with the bulk of the pack contracted from the Cheetahs (Nyakane, Strauss, van der Merwe), Lions (Hattingh) and Saracens (Nic de Jager). Talk that a serious whack of cash will be thrown at Lood de Jager next year indicates that even Snyman shouldn’t be too sure of his position. For a side that invests quite as much in junior procurement as the Bulls do, that’s a rather sad statistic.

Sharks contracted loose forwards (Super Rugby squad):
Marcell Coetzee (leaving end of Super Rugby 2016)
Jean Deysel
Jacques Potgieter
Keegan Daniel
Philip van der Walt
Tera Mtembu
Francois Kleinhans
Khaya Majola
Jean-Luc du Preez
Daniel du Preez

Sharks loose forwards (Currie Cup squad):
Ayron Schramm
Graham Geldenhuys
Johan du Toit
Wade Elliot
Ray Williams
Retief Marais


  • Even with MC moving on and JD and KD has beens ,the rest are seriously good players,commentators saying how Tahs missed JP,so no room anymore,the Sharks have moved forward in this area huge time

  • Comment 1, posted at 21.03.16 11:02:38 by benji Reply
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  • Pity

  • Comment 2, posted at 21.03.16 11:10:29 by vanmartin Reply
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  • I would have kept him until at least after the NZ tour. The performance against the Bulls and Beast using fatigue and painful bodies and bones has convinced me that our boys may not be physically ready to play 4 hard games in a row.

  • Comment 3, posted at 21.03.16 11:13:19 by GreatSharksays Reply

  • Its been a long, long time since Deysel made a significant contribution to what must be a huge pay check.
    We got a lot more value out of Bothma last year than Kleinhans,Mthembu and Dessel combined.
    Secondly in Top Soccer no player is signed without a serious medical,did the Sharks know Potgieter was injured before they signed him and that he would miss the first half of the season.

  • Comment 4, posted at 21.03.16 11:18:45 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 4) : no, because he wasn’t injured at the time they signed him

  • Comment 5, posted at 21.03.16 11:23:34 by robdylan Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 4) :think you raise valid points in your comment.where i do think the sharks is short in the loosies is no6.imo cloete is playing his heart out in the kings team.perhaps the type of player the sharks should look to add to the loosies mix?especially with marcell leaving.

  • Comment 6, posted at 21.03.16 11:27:20 by 50shadesofshark Reply

  • I would say this also has more to do with pvdw and the dupree twins … just no room

  • Comment 7, posted at 21.03.16 11:30:13 by byron Reply

  • @robdylan (Comment 5) : So where and how was he so badly injured that he has missed 6 games.

  • Comment 8, posted at 21.03.16 11:30:50 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 4) : That’s why this move is just not sitting well for me.

  • Comment 9, posted at 21.03.16 11:36:33 by GreatSharksays Reply

  • @The hound (Comment 8) : maybe in Japan?

    Hound, come boet. You’re chasing shadows here and if you just used your own infallible memory for just a minute or two, you’d work this one out.

    Sharks announced the signing of Potgieter all the way back in May 2015, confirming that he would need to
    a) complete his Super Rugby commitments in Sydney
    b) complete his Japanese commitments to Sanix
    before joining the side for Super Rugby 2016.

    So obviously when they signed him in May last year, he wasn’t injured, but it doesn’t take a genius to work out that he picked up the injury since then. In Japan, where he was playing up until January.

    Is it that hard?

  • Comment 10, posted at 21.03.16 11:40:46 by robdylan Reply
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  • @GreatSharksays (Comment 9) : any idea how many penalties Bothma conceded last year? I agree that he started out playing very well, but that impact dropped off markedly as the season progressed.

  • Comment 11, posted at 21.03.16 11:41:36 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 11) : Mate…last year was a dog show. You couldn’t buy discipline in that team even if your life depended on it. Heard crazy stories of players swearing at coaches. Then red cards to Deysel, Bissie etc…

  • Comment 12, posted at 21.03.16 11:54:41 by GreatSharksays Reply

  • So Chili is available from the 9th of April. Someone please confirm.

  • Comment 13, posted at 21.03.16 11:55:29 by GreatSharksays Reply

  • Both tera and kleinhans out with injuries,and expected to make their return after bothma.but tera is a no8 first and kleinhans no6.question we need to ask is how long is potgieter still from match fitness,since he plays no7.sharks play saders this weekend,have a bye weekend,then play lions.3 weeks.will potgieter be ready for the tour?deysel should be ready.

  • Comment 14, posted at 21.03.16 11:59:41 by 50shadesofshark Reply

  • @robdylan (Comment 11) : So Mtembu is injured again,Potgieter arrived so badly injured that he hasn’t played in12 weeks,Deysel hasn’t played since 2015,and we get rid of Bothma.
    Looks to me like it was a choice between Daniel and Bothma and Daniel won.
    Must say I was’t too filled with overwhelming confidence when Daniel went on the field and he disappeared into the ether,can’t remember one thing he did in the game.

  • Comment 15, posted at 21.03.16 12:03:37 by The hound Reply
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  • @GreatSharksays (Comment 13) : think it’s 9 or 10 April but for sure not later than 10 April.

  • Comment 16, posted at 21.03.16 12:05:04 by JD Reply
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  • Really not sure how I feel about this. Hope the Sharks know what they’re doing.

  • Comment 17, posted at 21.03.16 12:07:49 by JD Reply
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  • these are only estimates.

  • Comment 18, posted at 21.03.16 12:08:16 by 50shadesofshark Reply

  • @robdylan (Comment 11) : Don’t think it’s fair to gauge any player based on last year’s performances. I’d argue we’d have been happier to see the back of Ettiene if we only take last year into account. Doubt many would disagree.

  • Comment 19, posted at 21.03.16 12:10:54 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 15) : Daniels came cheap by all accounts, seriously doubt it was a choice between him and Renaldo.

  • Comment 20, posted at 21.03.16 12:12:19 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 15) : That’s why I maintain he is a 6 or an 8.

  • Comment 21, posted at 21.03.16 12:13:30 by GreatSharksays Reply

  • @JD (Comment 17) : well bothma has been on the sharks books injured and busy with rehab till about 2 weeks from being readdy to play again.

  • Comment 22, posted at 21.03.16 12:14:56 by 50shadesofshark Reply

  • @GreatSharksays (Comment 12) : players swearing at coaches??? Doesn’t surprise me one bit.

    I’m glad we had a bit of a clear out of “senior” players last season. Seems they were getting in the way of progress.

    Now we know why Jake White found things so hard just the year before too…

  • Comment 23, posted at 21.03.16 12:21:37 by Sharks_have_Character! Reply

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  • @vanmartin (Comment 19) : good point.sharks have had bothma on the books all this time injured and then let him go 2 weeks from being match ready.perhaps have given the player the benefit of the season in the new set-up?permutations must have been made with re: to players available ,and coming back from injury.wonder how the released money will be used?to procure a player outside of the squad or retain u21s?

  • Comment 24, posted at 21.03.16 12:22:14 by 50shadesofshark Reply

  • Player being signed mid season means to me there is some discontent with that player.

  • Comment 25, posted at 21.03.16 12:25:11 by Sharks_have_Character! Reply

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  • @Sharks_have_Character! (Comment 25) : or maybe the player would have signed to play for the bulls in 2017?just been given the opportunity to do so sooner?since we do not know the full story,it is ddifficult to say for certain.don’t think he is a bulls at heart,but sounds like he will be given more game time there than what he can perhaps expect in dbn.

  • Comment 26, posted at 21.03.16 12:40:18 by 50shadesofshark Reply

  • @Sharks_have_Character! (Comment 23) :Funny how the three biggest culprits ended up with Jake in France.
    As good as those three are/were the team is so much better off without them.

  • Comment 27, posted at 21.03.16 12:47:27 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 27) : the irony.

  • Comment 28, posted at 21.03.16 12:58:15 by Sharks_have_Character! Reply

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  • Great value from him last year, but I think it makes sense for him and us. I really don’t see the need for another blind side. Where we are in trouble is open side – nobody is SA comes close to Marcel.

    Interesting loosie depth we have left; 3 capable trios of SR quality.

  • Comment 29, posted at 21.03.16 13:03:32 by Big Fish Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 27) : not knowing the story from either or both sides-if there is : imo ,and i have mentioned more than twice,it would have been worth the wait to let rdp have a chat to the players before any decision re: players was made.think bissie could have still added plenty to this team.

  • Comment 30, posted at 21.03.16 13:05:15 by 50shadesofshark Reply

  • Will need to find a dynamic no6 for 2017 sr.

  • Comment 31, posted at 21.03.16 13:07:39 by 50shadesofshark Reply

  • Jeez the Kings are such an embarrassment to South Africa.

    I’m taking nothing away from the players and coaches who are trying their hearts out.

    But one only needs to read the NZ press to realise the contempt in which they are held. It’s no good for SA and this supposedly elite competition.

    I mentioned yesterday a definite anti SA vibe emanating from NZ. Wynne Gray wants a trans Tasman Super rugby competition only from 2020 onwards (ie only NZ and Aus) and if you think about it, they’re already half way there because NZ and Aus teams play each other every year but only play half the SA teams.

    SA needs to be cautious about how it positions itself in the global game.

  • Comment 32, posted at 21.03.16 13:13:23 by Sharks_have_Character! Reply

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  • im not completely on board with this

    I have a bad feeling

    we’re going to be in trouble at openside soon with marcell leaving, or will we recruit cloete or even jaco kriel i hope

    bothma was really effective

    and with so many okes out injured

    I dont know a great deal about the young lose forwards in our cc team though, is there potential there, can some one elaborate

  • Comment 33, posted at 21.03.16 13:13:49 by revolverocelot Reply

  • @revolverocelot (Comment 33) : in the press the Bulls are being described as pursuing an “aggressive” recruitment policy.

    I guess they made him an offer he couldn’t refuse and were willing to compensate the Sharks for the unexpired portion of his contract.

  • Comment 34, posted at 21.03.16 13:21:06 by Sharks_have_Character! Reply

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  • @Sharks_have_Character! (Comment 32) : play up north.just bring the argies and japan with.

  • Comment 35, posted at 21.03.16 13:23:09 by 50shadesofshark Reply

  • @revolverocelot (Comment 33) : doubt kriel will happen ,but cloete could.think he plays with enthusiasm and energy plus is a nuisance at the breakdown.also played u19 & u21 for the sharks.

  • Comment 36, posted at 21.03.16 13:27:38 by 50shadesofshark Reply

  • @Sharks_have_Character! (Comment 34) : or the expired part of the contract,perhaps?

  • Comment 37, posted at 21.03.16 13:29:28 by 50shadesofshark Reply

  • @revolverocelot (Comment 33) : Graham Geldenhuys is very highly rated as a 6. This kid could well be the real deal.

    Don’t write off Khaya Majola, though.

  • Comment 38, posted at 21.03.16 13:31:08 by robdylan Reply
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  • @revolverocelot (Comment 33) : keen to see how psdt’s younger brother johan develops this season.still u21.1.95m tall who can play no4/no7.

  • Comment 39, posted at 21.03.16 13:31:21 by 50shadesofshark Reply

  • @robdylan (Comment 38) : majola has had quite a few injuries,too.interesting to hear about geldenhuys.

  • Comment 40, posted at 21.03.16 13:34:34 by 50shadesofshark Reply

  • @50shadesofshark (Comment 35) : no, that would be an error. If we played in the dour European fish pond our rugby will only regress further. And we will slide from a usual top 3 SH position closer to the mass of European pretender teams. Competition with the best in the game is keeping us competitive.

    Measure yourself against the best.

  • Comment 41, posted at 21.03.16 13:37:10 by Sharks_have_Character! Reply

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  • That Schramm kid is another good one,played with the duPes at Kearsney.

  • Comment 42, posted at 21.03.16 13:37:34 by The hound Reply
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  • Also,keegan is a no6.can play no8 with vd walt and leave no7 duties for jldp and ddp?

  • Comment 43, posted at 21.03.16 13:37:39 by 50shadesofshark Reply

  • At least a kiwi writer is willing to speak out on Jonker’s TMO howler this past weekend. Thankfully someone has because the hypocrisy from the Cape media this week has been alarming after they bayed for blood all of the week before.

  • Comment 44, posted at 21.03.16 13:39:52 by Sharks_have_Character! Reply

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  • @Sharks_have_Character! (Comment 41) : im not so sure.has all this superrugby not bred a familiarity that the kiwis and aus teams have been better to use to their advantage?

  • Comment 45, posted at 21.03.16 13:43:11 by 50shadesofshark Reply

  • @The hound (Comment 27) : @Sharks_have_Character! (Comment 28) : must say I love the Karma!!!!

  • Comment 46, posted at 21.03.16 14:22:00 by JD Reply
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  • Only one new rugby piece to digest on IOL today and surprise, surprise it’s an Ashfak Mohamed fan boy piece on his beloved Stormers… sigh…

    Until I actually started to count the online articles I had no idea how one-sided the news coverage of SA’s teams is in this country. Struggling to see what’s so special about the one team hogging all the media space.

  • Comment 47, posted at 21.03.16 17:55:23 by Sharks_have_Character! Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 38) : I think K majola has tons of potential, his struggled with injuries though

    lets see how things work out

  • Comment 48, posted at 21.03.16 19:11:22 by revolverocelot Reply

  • @Sharks_have_Character! (Comment 41) :

    South African rugby will be better if our teams play in European competitions. More SA players will play against and with each other and more SA players will choose to stay. SA rugby will be able to earn more money from TV rights and sponsorships, because of larger audiences and better time zone schedules. In addition to easier travel, the extra income could induce more players to stay.

    The idea that SA has to play many matches against NZ to stay better than the European teams is nonsense. If it was true, then SA and Aus would have, over the last 20 years of SR, been more and more dominant of the European teams and the differences between NZ, Aus and SA should have been diminishing.
    None of this happened.

  • Comment 49, posted at 22.03.16 02:05:41 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 49) : I disagree. Aus and SA are, to put it simply, consistently better than the European teams.

    Playing against the likes of Leicester, Glasgow, Treviso, Cardiff or Toulouse on boggy winter pitches would not only be incredibly boring (if you think our boring derbies are bad just wait) but the standard of I play, I firmly believe, will drop.

    It’s a simple fact in life – ask the Argentinians who now hold not a shred of regret for not being considered for an expanded 6N and look at them go – if you want to be among the best, you compete with the best.

    I think we need to suck it up and improve our game – hint: a little island nation of 4 million people has shown the way…

  • Comment 50, posted at 22.03.16 02:16:40 by Sharks_have_Character! Reply

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  • Thanks for the time Renaldo. I think this is the right move by the Sharks, it would have been easy to hold onto the player and hoard him away somewhere only to bring him out for a game or 2 as a backup player. I believe it is a move that is in the best interests of the player and that is seldom the case in rugby.

  • Comment 51, posted at 22.03.16 08:47:14 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • Now the real question, touched on in the article, is how Bulls who have for years contracted every promising youngster that moved, can be in such dire straits that they openly admit that they have to throw their chequebooks at a new squad.

  • Comment 52, posted at 22.03.16 08:50:17 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Sharks_have_Character! (Comment 50) : negotiate for a new season schedule to play against the european club teams?thinking of rugby as a winter only sport is old-school thinking.let this tournament take place in the european summer and autumn.

  • Comment 53, posted at 22.03.16 09:17:41 by 50shadesofshark Reply

  • Its an interesting decision this. I think the fact that we only have him signed till the end of Super rugby this year and he is injured played a big role. Management seem to want to back the guys that have longer term deals with the Sharks and are available for CC etc. Still would have been nice to keep though as our loosies do seem to get injured often. But guess that just means a youngster will get a run.

  • Comment 54, posted at 22.03.16 09:41:47 by SheldonK Reply

  • @Sharks_have_Character! (Comment 50) : sad to say but I think your spot on. The 4 Rugby Championship sides was the last 4 teams in the world cup. Currently we are 1, 2, 3 and 6 in the world rankings.

  • Comment 55, posted at 22.03.16 10:48:59 by JD Reply
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  • @50shadesofshark (Comment 53) : good luck getting the Euro clubs to agree!

  • Comment 56, posted at 22.03.16 10:54:03 by Sharks_have_Character! Reply

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  • @Sharks_have_Character! (Comment 56) : yes can’t see it happening.

  • Comment 57, posted at 22.03.16 11:20:09 by JD Reply
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  • @Sharks_have_Character! (Comment 56) : @JD (Comment 57) : there was an article recently stating that both New Zealand and South Africa will be making a concerted effort to have a global season introduced by 2020. If memory serves they won’t sign on for international tours to try and force World Rugby’s hand in the matter.

  • Comment 58, posted at 22.03.16 11:42:48 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 58) : Yeh i also saw that. They are trying but they are expecting it to be very difficult to convince the French league and even the English league will be tricky.

  • Comment 59, posted at 22.03.16 11:51:07 by SheldonK Reply

  • @vanmartin (Comment 58) : yes, but the power in World Rugby lies in the north. Good luck to NZ and SA. A virtually impossible task given the set up.

  • Comment 60, posted at 22.03.16 12:07:14 by Sharks_have_Character! Reply

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  • And lets not forget… SA and NZ receive huge wads of cash from those NH end of year tours. They’re cash cows. Lets see how long the resolve lasts.

  • Comment 61, posted at 22.03.16 12:08:25 by Sharks_have_Character! Reply

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  • @vanmartin (Comment 58) : @SheldonK (Comment 59) : @Sharks_have_Character! (Comment 60) : yes they can try but don’t think the Northern Hemisphere sides will easily agree.

  • Comment 62, posted at 22.03.16 12:17:01 by JD Reply
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  • Wow Sam Cane has been let off Scott free.

  • Comment 63, posted at 22.03.16 12:25:06 by Sharks_have_Character! Reply

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  • @JD (Comment 62) : Yup i agree. Will need some serious negotiations

  • Comment 64, posted at 22.03.16 12:28:44 by SheldonK Reply

  • @SheldonK (Comment 59) : @Sharks_have_Character! (Comment 60) : @JD (Comment 62) : it’s a tough ask but I’m glad someone is trying.

  • Comment 65, posted at 22.03.16 12:41:49 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 65) : Perhaps they would have better luck if the SH changed to play the same season as the NH?

  • Comment 66, posted at 22.03.16 12:49:57 by SheldonK Reply

  • @vanmartin (Comment 65) : yes glad someone is trying to do something about it.

  • Comment 67, posted at 22.03.16 13:08:31 by JD Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 66) : don’t think the SH can change as our summers is way to hot and humid. The NH summer is way cooler and better to play rugby.

  • Comment 68, posted at 22.03.16 13:10:24 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 68) : It would be tricky but asking them to change and we stay as is doesnt exactly give us much bargaining power

  • Comment 69, posted at 22.03.16 13:12:07 by SheldonK Reply

  • @JD (Comment 68) : @SheldonK (Comment 69) : one would hope for some compromise from both hemispheres. If either of the two was willing to completely fall in line with the other I imagine we’d already gave our global season by this point.

  • Comment 70, posted at 22.03.16 13:20:18 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 70) : Yeh fair point.

  • Comment 71, posted at 22.03.16 13:33:43 by SheldonK Reply

  • @SheldonK (Comment 69) : @vanmartin (Comment 70) : all I know is it will not be easy to do!

  • Comment 72, posted at 22.03.16 13:34:20 by JD Reply
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  • Bulls are looking to beef up pack with signing bothma and media says that Bulls have eyes on lood . Bulls maybe looking for a more physical forward pack

  • Comment 73, posted at 22.03.16 17:22:52 by ettas Reply

  • @ettas (Comment 73) : they seemed to out-physical the Sharks just ok.

    Anyway, I’ve always wondered why we in SA refer to “physical” players. Like how we always say “structures”. The definition of physical is “relating to the body as opposed to the mind.” Perhaps we should lose the fascination with “physical” players and rather value good, smart, skilful players??

  • Comment 74, posted at 22.03.16 18:03:38 by Sharks_have_Character! Reply

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  • @Sharks_have_Character! (Comment 74) : somehow SA still stuck on bigger is better!! and sorry to say can’t see it change anytime soon!!

  • Comment 75, posted at 22.03.16 18:18:39 by JD Reply
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  • @ettas (Comment 73) : yes it’s no secret that the Bulls want to sign Lood but I think the Sharks might also be interested in Lood so let’s see where he goes or can the cheetahs hold on to their star player?!?!

  • Comment 76, posted at 22.03.16 18:20:18 by JD Reply
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  • @Sharks_have_Character! (Comment 74) : in my opinion it’s going to take a long time to get where ab’s are , the rest of the world is trying to copy that style of play and I think with the right players we as South Africans could beat anyone playing a physical /structured game . Look at when we won 07 wc , with the likes of Danie Rossouw , Juan smith and a bigger schalk as a loose trio . Also when the baby boks won in 2012 they completely outmuscled the baba blacks with our bigger pack . we mustn’t change its going to take too long let’s keep our physical style it will work (WITH THE RIGHT players )

  • Comment 77, posted at 22.03.16 18:43:05 by ettas Reply

  • @ettas (Comment 77) : mate, playing that game works 1 out of 10 times against the All Blacks, if we’re lucky. And is often prone to fail against the likes of Scotland, Argentina, Japan, etc.

    Why do we have to have a single rigid style? Why not be flexible? What isn’t up for debate is that our players can improve in terms of skills, ball handling and game awareness and if they can do that and still retain our “traditional” strengths then we may be on to something.

  • Comment 78, posted at 22.03.16 19:26:30 by Sharks_have_Character! Reply

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  • Our coaching needs to improve though. SA coaches are largely very dof. Hands up how many SA coaches are employed by top international and provincial teams?

  • Comment 79, posted at 22.03.16 19:27:51 by Sharks_have_Character! Reply

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  • @Sharks_have_Character! (Comment 78) : for sure the skills level of the players must improve and in some cases it did now to get the rest of the Sharks to improve then we’re Golden.

  • Comment 80, posted at 22.03.16 20:22:42 by JD Reply
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  • @Sharks_have_Character! (Comment 79) : well I can think of at least three one in France and two in Japan.

  • Comment 81, posted at 22.03.16 20:24:37 by JD Reply
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  • @ettas (Comment 77) : players like skinstad and spies should have been identified at school already as backline players.maybe the problem in sa is proper talent id.still think skinstad would have been sbw -remember those one-handed through-the-tackle offloads of his?and spies on the wing or no13?

  • Comment 82, posted at 22.03.16 20:28:51 by 50shadesofshark Reply

  • @JD (Comment 76) : marcell (to ireland),jpp (to england) and bothma (to bulls) off the payroll for next season.

  • Comment 83, posted at 22.03.16 20:32:32 by 50shadesofshark Reply

  • boks won the ’95 rwc but lost the coach.if sa could have achieved coaching continuity?

  • Comment 84, posted at 22.03.16 20:43:08 by 50shadesofshark Reply

  • @50shadesofshark (Comment 83) : think between Marcell and JPP salaries there will for sure be enough money free to sign Lood.

  • Comment 85, posted at 22.03.16 20:43:47 by JD Reply
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  • OMG. It’s become infectious.

    Michael Claasens: “We did not start well in the first half [against the Bulls]. We made a lot of mistakes, but the boys showed a lot of character in the second half and a lot of commitment by coming back.”

    character 👿 😀

  • Comment 86, posted at 22.03.16 20:54:03 by Sharks_have_Character! Reply

    Gold's Member
  • @JD (Comment 85) : ill be quite pissed if lood go’s to bulls i mean really did the sharks management not see the wc. they signed ruan botha who’s not even a bok and let the sa player of the year stay in mielieland with a shit cheethas team

  • Comment 87, posted at 22.03.16 21:06:38 by ettas Reply

  • @50shadesofshark (Comment 82) : true that donno if spies had the skill for a back but skinstad would have been a great backline player as he had so much skillllllllll . keagen daniel also falls into that category

  • Comment 88, posted at 22.03.16 21:16:26 by ettas Reply

  • @Sharks_have_Character! (Comment 86) : I told you they’re trolling the media. Claasens just joined the betting pool by the sounds of it.

  • Comment 89, posted at 22.03.16 21:40:31 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @ettas (Comment 87) : the sharks were one of many teams that did make lood an offer,but the player himself declined the big money and signed a 1-year deal with the cheetahs.

  • Comment 90, posted at 22.03.16 21:44:39 by 50shadesofshark Reply

  • @ettas (Comment 87) : think Lood was still under contract with the Cheetahs.

  • Comment 91, posted at 22.03.16 21:46:37 by JD Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 89) : @Sharks_have_Character! (Comment 86) : hahaha time to show character and win Super rugby!!!

  • Comment 92, posted at 22.03.16 21:49:00 by JD Reply
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  • @Sharks_have_Character! (Comment 86) : sometimes teams choose a phrase,a word,or words ,to describe the core value(s) of the team.maybe “character” is the word the team and coaches have decided on?what does “character” here mean to the team?

  • Comment 93, posted at 22.03.16 21:50:27 by 50shadesofshark Reply

  • @JD (Comment 91) : his cheetahs contract expired last year,but he decided to sign a 1-year deal.

  • Comment 94, posted at 22.03.16 21:51:54 by 50shadesofshark Reply

  • @ettas (Comment 88) : spies should have been id as a wing/no13 and coached in that position.the bulls tried him on the wing in his age-group days,but then decided to discontinue that.his dad was a right wing for the bulls.

  • Comment 95, posted at 22.03.16 21:56:06 by 50shadesofshark Reply

  • @50shadesofshark (Comment 82) : @ettas (Comment 88) : personally think Spies was more hype than talent so don’t know if he would have made a better wing than a loosie. As for Keegan, Kanko & Skinstad I’m not sure how good they would have been as backs what I do know is they made very good linking loosies so personally I would not have moved them to the back line.

  • Comment 96, posted at 22.03.16 21:56:44 by JD Reply
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  • @50shadesofshark (Comment 94) : @ettas (Comment 87) : OK I stand corrected. Let’s hope this time round he decides to sign with the Sharks!!!

  • Comment 97, posted at 22.03.16 21:59:32 by JD Reply
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  • @50shadesofshark (Comment 95) : yes not sure why they decided to move him from wing to loosie?!?! Maybe they did not think he was quick enough to play wing?!?! Who knows or actually who cares!!!!

  • Comment 98, posted at 22.03.16 22:05:05 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 96) : spies was talented.athlete.the best outcome for the player and boks would have been if he was played on the wing or no13.

  • Comment 99, posted at 22.03.16 22:05:27 by 50shadesofshark Reply

  • @JD (Comment 98) : im sorry to say,but that might be the reason why the abs have started to dominate the boks in the results column.we need to care.

  • Comment 100, posted at 22.03.16 22:08:23 by 50shadesofshark Reply

  • @50shadesofshark (Comment 99) : must say I only saw him playing as a loosie so don’t know how good he was as a wing/13 but somehow I don’t think he would have been a better wing than Habana or JPP or a better 13 than Fourie so not sure if he would have made the Bokke side for the 2007 World cup.

  • Comment 101, posted at 22.03.16 22:11:43 by JD Reply
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  • @50shadesofshark (Comment 100) : was thinking of the career of Spies as a wing or a loosie. Really don’t care what or where he plays as long as it’s not for the Sharks.
    The results of the AB vs Bokke has a lot of other factors some is poor coaching others can’t be discussed here so it’s not a clear cut as moving one or two players. Our coaches needs to move on from bulk is better to skills and that will only happen if oor junior structures are adapted to force coaches to work on player skills instead of picking a big kid to win the games!!

  • Comment 102, posted at 22.03.16 22:13:57 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 101) : just for a moment though,imagine spies with his combo of speed and strenght,1-on-1 on the wing.and he had a powerful hand-off.if he beat his defender on the outside,he would have taken some stopping.

  • Comment 103, posted at 22.03.16 22:19:35 by 50shadesofshark Reply

  • Spies got very soft as a player and certainly doesn’t look like the spies that first burst onto the scene making meters in every carry maybe he should’ve stayed on the wing , eben was also a wing u know – imagine if he carried on playing wing 😉 I for one would not like to be a opposition winger

  • Comment 104, posted at 22.03.16 22:22:02 by ettas Reply

  • @50shadesofshark (Comment 103) : yes it is only my opinion. I personally think he had the speed and size but lacked the heart to really be a super player. Unfortunately we will never know as the decision was made and the rest as they say is history.

  • Comment 105, posted at 22.03.16 22:27:44 by JD Reply
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  • @ettas (Comment 104) : Spies was never the same after the “lung problems” he had just before the 2007 world cup.
    Did not know Eben was a wing. In his case I would say moving to lock was a good decision as I don’t think he’s nearly fast enough to play wing and it seems as if he’s flourishing in the role as “enforcer”.

  • Comment 106, posted at 22.03.16 22:30:46 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 102) : so trueeee school level is where u have to look at . The natal schools seem just fine but it’s the big boys up north that won’t change their way of play. I watched eg Jansen vs glenwood last year and there were two different styles of play ,glenwood being way more expansive and eg Jansen just bashing into bodies

  • Comment 107, posted at 22.03.16 22:31:47 by ettas Reply

  • @ettas (Comment 104) : just thinking of willem alberts.remember owen finnegan of the brumbies?holds the record for most sr tries by a forward?why did the sharks never try and mould alberts into a finnegan-typle player using the runs the brumbies did?gregan taking quick from the ruck going lateral,drawing the ruck defenders with him ,and then the inside pass to finnegan steaming through the gap?alberts was just a bash-it-up player in the game plan.

  • Comment 108, posted at 22.03.16 22:33:00 by 50shadesofshark Reply

  • @ettas (Comment 107) : @50shadesofshark (Comment 108) : problem starts at primary school level were you just buy one or two 130kg player(s) and pass him the ball to him to win all the games for you. No need to waist time on skills training. Untill that changes nothing in SA rugby will change and players like Willem Alberts and co will remain crash ball “specialists”.

  • Comment 109, posted at 22.03.16 22:44:05 by JD Reply
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  • @50shadesofshark (Comment 108) : plum would’ve thought of that . its true that’s the innovation we as sa don’t have and I donno y . But man it would’ve been legend to see . Alberts was the best 7 sa has ever had in my opinion

  • Comment 110, posted at 22.03.16 22:51:35 by ettas Reply

  • Unique to SA rugby words:


    Over used SA rugby word for current players:


    Unique to NZ/Aus rugby words:


    Can anyone think of any others? 😀

  • Comment 111, posted at 22.03.16 23:06:40 by Sharks_have_Character! Reply

    Gold's Member
  • @ettas (Comment 110) : Alberts the best 7 SA has ever had? Man now I understand your adulation of all things physical earlier.

    For me, post 1992 it is Ruben Kruger and Andre Venter.

  • Comment 112, posted at 22.03.16 23:08:13 by Sharks_have_Character! Reply

    Gold's Member
  • Alberts was usually crocked too and when he wasn’t he lasted only 50 minutes.

  • Comment 113, posted at 22.03.16 23:09:56 by Sharks_have_Character! Reply

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  • @Sharks_have_Character! (Comment 112) : Ruben Kruger now he was a legend with character!!!

  • Comment 114, posted at 22.03.16 23:19:01 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 114) : @Sharks_have_Character! (Comment 112) : sorry boet just had to!! Ruben was one of my personal favourite players of all time. Hard as nails no nonsense player!! Andre Venter man now that was another great no7 almost like Juan Smith. Free State can surely produce them!!!

  • Comment 115, posted at 22.03.16 23:21:46 by JD Reply
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  • @Sharks_have_Character! (Comment 113) : thinking of all the bone crunching tackles he made and received it’s a miracle he lasted as long as he did!!!

  • Comment 116, posted at 22.03.16 23:23:21 by JD Reply
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  • @Sharks_have_Character! (Comment 113) : @JD (Comment 116) : alberts tackled hard,and in the game plan,was also heavily marked and tackled by usually 2 or 3 defenders.

  • Comment 117, posted at 23.03.16 00:04:45 by 50shadesofshark Reply

  • @Sharks_have_Character! (Comment 111) : sa rugby invention 3-4-1.

  • Comment 118, posted at 23.03.16 00:07:41 by 50shadesofshark Reply

  • @Sharks_have_Character! (Comment 111) : first test team to use the hooker to throw the ball in at the line-out thus having the blindside wing as a defensive and attacking option?the springboks.

  • Comment 119, posted at 23.03.16 00:10:42 by 50shadesofshark Reply

  • Daily Stormer bias media watch:

    The 4 most recent rugby articles on IOL are entitled –

    1. “Groom set for Jaguares dogfight”
    2. “Schalk does practice his kicks”
    3. “Meet Burger, Argentina tour guide”
    4. “Guarded Stormers wary of Jaguares”


    Nary a Sharks or any other team article in sight.

    Just a quick question – does Ashfak Mohamed only write about the Stormers? Can South African media outlets afford to employ writers to only write about one team? Sounds like a dream job.

  • Comment 120, posted at 23.03.16 02:21:46 by Sharks_have_Character! Reply

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  • @Sharks_have_Character! (Comment 120) : 😡

  • Comment 121, posted at 23.03.16 06:42:02 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @ettas (Comment 87) : They certainly did try…when they did not get Lood’s signature they moved on to Ruan, who – given we didn’t get Lood – was a very good option. Guys, don’t always assume we don’t sign a guy just because our management is dumb…there are other factors involved! Having said that…it would be terrible if Lood does go to the Bulls!

  • Comment 122, posted at 23.03.16 06:50:44 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @50shadesofshark (Comment 82) : Spies was a backline player he opted to become a forward.

  • Comment 123, posted at 23.03.16 07:02:50 by coolfusion Reply

  • To me it’s utter crap that you can sign a guy mid series and have him play the next week. There should be transfer window rules in place.

  • Comment 124, posted at 23.03.16 07:05:27 by coolfusion Reply

  • Just to add my 3cents here. For those thinking that SA players are bigger and more physical than New Zealanders think again. Trust me they are a lot more powerful and stronger than our guys. Difference is that they are rugby players who are big and strong. Our guys are gym bunnies that try and play rugby. However having said that the newer generation of players coming through the schools etc are very much moulded on the new zealanders, they are big but quick and skillful from 1 to 15.

  • Comment 125, posted at 23.03.16 08:55:25 by SheldonK Reply

  • @SheldonK (Comment 125) : Reading Richie Mccaws book was an eye opener. He admits to not being as strong as the Bok loosies – but only for the first 55 minutes. He says that he could always tell when to up the gear – he could hear the bigger guys breathing hard and he still felt fresh – power is only usefull when your lungs are full of oxygen, once you get tired, no matter how big and strong you, you buggered. The All Blacks believe in skill and fitness above all else. Their main power lies in their fitness and tenacity – how often are they level or even losing come the 65 minute mark – then they find a way to win in the last 15.

  • Comment 126, posted at 23.03.16 09:16:35 by Vonno13 Reply
  • @Vonno13 (Comment 126) : Yeh ive chatted to quite a few guys about how they train etc in NZ and as you say skill and fitness are premiums. They believe in first creating a good skillful player and then work on their conditioning. And in terms of that conditioning its fully focussed on power…so strength over time. Their gym work surrounds that concept of High Intensity Interval Training as they believe that closely resembles that of a match. Ive heard many a New zealander say that the Sa guys and even those in Eng and Wales would detstroy them in the gym

  • Comment 127, posted at 23.03.16 09:32:46 by SheldonK Reply

  • @pastorshark (Comment 122) : for sure I know that some player will not sign with a team no matter how much you offer them and in the end it is their decision to make. Just hope maybe now Lood will sign seeing as the Sharks look more settled and improving.

  • Comment 128, posted at 23.03.16 09:48:51 by JD Reply
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  • @coolfusion (Comment 124) : if he is deemed surplus at one team (and he did not play for them yet in the season) why can’t he move if both teams agree to it? Why must he sit on the side lines for a whole season?

  • Comment 129, posted at 23.03.16 09:52:15 by JD Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 125) : think SA players are for sure stronger than NZ players it’s just the “South Sea Island imports” that’s bigger and stronger. :mrgreen: 😈
    @Vonno13 (Comment 126) : fitness and skills is very importand and I think that’s were SA is losing the battle! SA’s attitude of “bigger is better” is failing as the bigger you are the harder you must work to move around the field. I personally think this current Sharks side is way more based on the NZ principals of fitter and skilful players over the usual “bigger is better”. This for me is shown in the amount of points that the Sharks have conceded in the second 40 of the matches (6 in 4 games)!

  • Comment 130, posted at 23.03.16 10:05:13 by JD Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 127) : HIIT training is so underrated here. A few friends and myself signed up for a Black Ops Warrior Race in 2014 – 22km, 30 obstacles. We had roughly five months to get into shape. I opted for a HIIT training schedule while most of my friends went the traditional gym route (weights with cardio as an afterthought). I finished surprisingly comfortably and could have easily put in a few more kms while the rest of the group were seriously discussing giving up 5km from the end. There are still people that refuse to believe that I only prepared using HIIT training.

  • Comment 131, posted at 23.03.16 10:10:13 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 131) : for sure especially in a sport where explosive power is needed like rugby.

  • Comment 132, posted at 23.03.16 10:14:47 by JD Reply
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  • @Vonno13 (Comment 126) : and that emphasis on fitness,on being the fittedst team in world rugby,is what the boks lost post-’95 rwc.kitch christie made sure the boks would be the fittest team.the loss of christie as head coach was massive in how the next 20 years went imo

  • Comment 133, posted at 23.03.16 10:33:10 by 50shadesofshark Reply

  • @coolfusion (Comment 123) : heyneke meyyer was the coach who tried spies on the wing.he was no8 at school for affies.

  • Comment 134, posted at 23.03.16 10:43:33 by 50shadesofshark Reply

  • @vanmartin (Comment 131) : @vanmartin (Comment 131) : Yeh look it is a very good training method but you also need to know how to use it correctly and incorrect use can lead to injury/burn out especially if you training most days. I also dont believe that most commercial gyms in SA equipped and set up for HIIT. Having said that i truly believe that the generation coming through is vastly different to that of the past in terms of their conditioning and skillset. I just hope they arent all painted with that same old Bok brush and classified as such. There is a new breed to be embraced

  • Comment 135, posted at 23.03.16 10:49:53 by SheldonK Reply

  • @SheldonK (Comment 125) : collectively,they are fitter.the problem is not the players being gym bunnies.they onlly do the programs they get from the dtrenght and conditioning coaches.saw clips of the lions pre-season training and there was a lot of emphasis on explosive training/hiit.even the bulls under heyneke meyer did tyre flips etc.dont know the reps/sets/intensity/rest and periodization periods.maybe there is the difference?

  • Comment 136, posted at 23.03.16 10:53:22 by 50shadesofshark Reply

  • @50shadesofshark (Comment 136) : Its hard to pinpoint exactly. I think a major thing is a lot of the players, forwards especially are probably carrying too much weight. There is also a difference between just doing good exercises and doing them at the right speed/duration etc. If i look at a lot of the younger generation even the bigger guys (fro example Thomas DuToit) can get around the park pretty quickly.

  • Comment 137, posted at 23.03.16 10:58:11 by SheldonK Reply

  • @SheldonK (Comment 135) : Absolutely agreed on your injury/burnout point. I had a training buddy that helped me a lot in that regard

  • Comment 138, posted at 23.03.16 11:18:53 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @50shadesofshark (Comment 134) : very interesting seemingly we all had it wrong.

  • Comment 139, posted at 23.03.16 12:57:21 by JD Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 137) : @50shadesofshark (Comment 136) : looking at the Sharks team they all seem slim downed (even the props do not have the usual “bit of belly fat” like in the past) compared to previous years.

  • Comment 140, posted at 23.03.16 13:00:15 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 140) : Majority are slimmed down. I think Coenie still carrying too much weight as is Thomas DuToit and even Juan Schoeman

  • Comment 141, posted at 23.03.16 13:25:57 by SheldonK Reply

  • @SheldonK (Comment 141) : maybe but I think it’s a lot less than they did last year.

  • Comment 142, posted at 23.03.16 14:16:07 by JD Reply
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