It’s Ellis Park this week as the Boks seek redemption.
Kick-off is at 5pm.
South Africa: 15 Willie le Roux, 14 JP Pietersen, 13 Lionel Mapoe, 12 Damian de Allende, 11 Lwazi Mvovo, 10 Elton Jantjies, 9 Francois de Klerk, 8 Duane Vermeulen, 7 Siya Kolisi, 6 Francois Louw, 5 Pieter-Steph du Toit, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Frans Malherbe, 2 Adriaan Strauss (captain), 1 Tendai Mtawarira.
Replacements: 16 Bongi Mbonambi, 17 Trevor Nyakane, 18 Julian Redelinghuys, 19 Franco Mostert, 20 Warren Whiteley, 21 Rudy Paige 22 Morné Steyn, 23 Ruan Combrinck.
Ireland: 15 Jared Payne, 14 Andrew Trimble, 13 Robbie Henshaw, 12 Stuart Olding, 11 Craig Gilroy, 10 Paddy Jackson, 9 Conor Murray, 8 Jamie Heaslip, 7 Rhys Ruddock, 6 Iain Henderson, 5 Quinn Roux, 4 Devin Toner, 3 Tadhg Furlong, 2 Rory Best (captain), 1 Jack McGrath.
Replacements: 16 Richardt Strauss, 17 Dave Kilcoyne, 18 Finlay Bealham, 19 Donnacha Ryan, 20 Sean Reidy, 21 Kieran Marmion, 22 Ian Madigan, 23 Tiernan O’Halloran.
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Ready for this…
Must say…listening to the bloke who coached UCT to the depths of the Farcity Cup as an in studio expert is a bit trying!!
england made history earlier today.can ireland follow suit?
Time for the anthems…
Come on Bokke!!!
First scrum…
Bok ball on the halfway line…
Solid to start, then Ireland dominate…it wheeled and the Boks get the penalty…huh?
Jantjies nails it…3-0 after 4 minutes…
Wonderful tackle there and great counter ruck…Boks look keyed up today…
Bok penalty… Kick to touch…
Vermeulen arm being strapped…
Boks with a lineout on the 22…
Much better at the breakdown so far…
Ireland rip it from Kolisi in the tackle and Ireland relieve the pressure…
@pastorshark (Comment 14) : Thanx for the updates pastor, sitting at work and ESPN scrum live not the greatest
Irelad steal the Bok lineout…sigh…
@Henkb (Comment 16) : Sorry man…
Willie with a good take but then a poor kick…
Louw penalised for not rolling away…Ireland have a kickable penalty…
A few poor mistakes by the Boks in the last two minutes…
Penalty nailed…3-3 after 11 minutes…
Jantijies kicking better…but Boks penalised because they thought it was a mall…but ref didn’t call it…
Another advantage to Ireland…Boks offsides…
Boks discipline is a problem…
Jackson nails it…
3-6 after 15 minutes…
Better lineout by the Boks…
This time advantage to the Boks…good attack by the Boks…advantage over…but then another penalty Boks…
Kickable penalty kicked to the corner…
I suppose brave by the Boks but Ireland defend the maul well…after a few phases Ireland strip the ball…
More phase play by the Boks…but then a knock…
Mvovo knocks the high ball and the Irish attack…
Another Bok handling error…
So three things Coetzee talked about a lot have still been poor: discipline, going low into contact and handling…all pretty poor…
Bokke not looking good at all!!!!
Bok scrum disintegrated…another Ireland penalty… 3-9 after 23 minutes..
@pastorshark (Comment 35) : yup. This is going to be a loooooong difficult game to watch regardless of result
@JD (Comment 36) : After a passionate start by the Boks, this is not looking good at all…
@pastorshark (Comment 35) : set pieces is also worrying!!!
@gregkaos (Comment 38) : think it could be time to mow the lawn or fix the roof! 😉
Good chase of Faf’s kick by Willie…but he knocks it…
Ireland get another kickable penalty…
And another penalty makes it 12-3!!! Bokke needs to wake up!!!
Nailed again…3-12 after 28 minutes..
@JD (Comment 41) : I’m going to watch Iceland vs Hungary in the Euros. No doubt have better handling skills despite it been soccer…
Trouble…
Ireland turn us over way too easily…
Boks lucky to get a penalty there…right call but Ireland had a good chance to counter when one of them holds Faf back…
At least now they try to take the points when they can. Not like last time kicking for the corner!!!
Jantjies hits the upright…of the rebound Louw wins a penalty at the breakdown…
First against the pole and then he miss to the left!!! Come on Bokke!!!
Jantjies misses his second chance…argh!
@JD (Comment 52) : Ai…
Bok back three with a big stuff up and Ireland score!!!
TMO to check…
Try time…
irish targeting mvovo with quite a few high kicks.
And Irish score a try!!!
Mvovo weak in defense of that kick…
@50shadesofshark (Comment 58) : Well, it’s definitely working…
Wow Ireland leads 19-3 after 34min!!!
should try a short kick-off maybe?
3-19…big trouble…and no sign that we are capable of turning this around…
Every backline “move” dies with de Allende…
@50shadesofshark (Comment 58) : @pastorshark (Comment 61) : Mvovo is really having a poor game tonight!
Getting schooled by the Irish here. Funny how everything seems to go right for the team with their tails up. Boks looking clueless and rattled.
Aerial skills of almost every Bok just very poor…my word!!!
@bonrad (Comment 67) : It’s not looking good…
Another kickable penalty.
Jackson misses…lucky…
I can’t think of a single one of our players that is doing well so far. Where are our locks? Where are DDA & Mapoe, is JPP even on the field? This is really embarrassing to watch…
6 penalties, 5 of them kickable, 8 missed tackles, 6 handling errors, 5 turnovers…just poor.
The crowd boos the Boks at halftime…that was an embarrassing half…
@pastorshark (Comment 65) : to be fair they are passing back so far behind the advantage line and then no runner is drawing in defences so Irish defence can just shift out and stop the move!!!
@JD (Comment 75) : Well, de Allende does make it easy to stop the move…very predictable!
@bonrad (Comment 72) : yes saw JPP when he conceded a penalty 😉
Never before have I heard the Boks bewing “booed” off the field at Ellis Park.
@FireTheLooser (Comment 78) : just wait you will hear it again after the final whistle! 😉
Megashark vs Giant Octopus is on SyFy channel. Just FYI… If you’re not interested in soccer.
I can’t watch any more. Why should I put the effort into watching players who are putting in no effort? The days of Springboks being a top team are over.
Amazing how Effy-beth disappears when the opposition toughens up…school yard bully.
Oh for the Good Old Days of Jake White . . . 😥
@Original Pierre (Comment 83) : ..and Pdv…and (dare I say) HM.
@SeanyJMc (Comment 81) : Imagine the people that paid to watch this garbage live.
Whitely on for Vermeulen, Combinck on for Mvovo…
I really thought we would be a different team and play a different game from last week. The Irish have upped their game on all levels, and the only difference with us that we are playing even worse than last week.
Whitely gets a huge cheer…
Combrinck with a nice run gets a big cheer…
Better by the Boks…until a flipping knock by Kolisi cocks it all up!! Come ooooooon!!!!!
De Allende has missed a heap of tackles…what the hell is he doing there?
DDA Missed tackles. 😯
@bonrad (Comment 92) : Aiaiai…
And le Roux’s pass goes astray…sigh…
Boks with another knock..
Malherbe does it again. 😡
Poor bloody discipline by Malherbe…side bloody entry…he did the same thing last week…
Ireland take another shot…he misses from 55 minu
@pastorshark (Comment 98) : …meters…
@pastorshark (Comment 97) : I’m sorry, how could AC start this guy, let alone have him on the team after last week’s debacle?
Malherbe immediately replaced after that…well done Alastair…
Its like staring at the sun…you know it’s wrong but you can’t help yourself ….eish
Kolisi has to be subbed. Doesn’t protect the ball well when he carries.
Enterprise by the Boks was better there…but still Ireland turn us over as they hold the ball up…
Ireland absolutely crunch us in the scrum and earn a penalty…
And it keeps on going downhill. Wow, this is bad!
@bonrad (Comment 106) : This can’t end well…
I’m giving myself another 5 minutes and if we don’t score I’m shutting this off. Not good for my Blood Pressure.
First good piece of good play by de Allende…big hand off…penalty Boks…
The way Ireland have countered our maul I don’t know it that was the right decision…
Kick deep into the 22…and our maul achieves nothing!!
3 minutes left and the clock is running for me….
Our scrum is nowhere…
Look at PSDT’s frustration! Says it all…
Jantjies knocks it…
Combrinck scores…great break by Willie and brilliant finish by Combrinck..
Well done Ruan!!!
Dang it, I guess I’m staying…. 😉
@pastorshark (Comment 116) : seems as if I’m just back in time!!!
Jantjies nails the kick and it is 10-19 after 58 minutes…
Fuck just after some good play the Bokke stuff up again!!!
Ag kick…score then GET THE BLOODY KICKOFF RIGHT!!! Faf’s kick charged down…
Aaaaaand Faf fluffs it!
Jantjies off and Steyn on to save us…
Ireland kick to the corner, crunch us in the maul and score…
Arrivederci, sayonara, auf wiedersehen, see you later, ciao!
Our forwards are soooooo kak…can’t maul, can’t scrum, can’t defend…I am embarrassed!!!
Back to square 1…10-26 after 60 minutes…
Jantjies back on…
At least we now have one bok to praise…Combrinck is playing soooo well
Whitely scores!!!
Wow have the Bokke woken up? Great team try for the Bokke!
Now can they just clear the ball after receiving the kick off!!!
Jantjies…misses…
15-26…still need 2 tries…
And once again they stuff up from the kick off!!!
Boks with a counter ruck…where was this earlier?
Kolisi lucky not to be penalised there…
Wow where was this Bok team for the first 60min?!?!?!
More good play by Willie and we almost score again…5m lineout to the Boks…
Great try by PSDT! 26-22 after 70min.
Good try…but third stuffed up kick off in a row!!!!!!
Penalty Boks…
And once again Bokke stuffs up the kick off but they’re luck to get a penalty.
Jantjies doesn’t kick it out…kak man!!
22-26 after 73 minutes…
Etzebeth steals that ball in the lineout…
Boks attack hard through phases…
De Allende bashes AND SCORES!!!
And De Allende scores!!! Wow some really good play from the Bokke!!!
Bokke lead 29-26 with 4min to go!!!
Boks lead 29-26…now get the restart right!!!
29-26 after 76 minutes..
And now Ireland are making the mistakes! Bokke scrum near halfway with 3 min to go.
That should have been a penalty to the Boks…poor reffing…
2 minutes to go…
@pastorshark (Comment 155) : Knock on…player in front played it…no penalty…
Penalty Boks…that must win it surely…take the full minute and kick it far…
And with 1 min to go Bokke get a penalty! Going for poles!
De Allende’s charges work against tired players…
Nailed it…game over…Boks win 32-26!
And the kick is over and the game is over Bokke win 32-26! Great last 20min won the game for the Bokke! Well done on showing some real character!
With 20 minutes to go I thought it was over…Ireland scored to lead by 16…22 points in the last 20 minutes. Well done!
@pastorshark (Comment 163) : for sure a great last 20min by the Bokke!
We can’t ignore the fact that we were shocking for 60 minutes!!! Well done on the comeback, though…Combrinck and Whitely take a bow…
Combrinck MOTM…WELL DONE!!!
Yo…but we were POOR for those first 60! Surely some changes to the starting line-up for next week…
@pastorshark (Comment 165) : We were very lucky that this game was played at altitude. Tiring Irish players helped us win the game in my opinion.
@pastorshark (Comment 166) : well done and well deserved!
That’s what happens when you sub the passengers.
Reward form, and dump reputation.
@FireTheLooser (Comment 170) : That would be a great start. If only the rest of the rubbish happening behind the scenes could be dumped too…
@Ben (Comment 168) : Sure…they fell off tackles in the end…
@Ben (Comment 168) : And that made de Allende look good…same unimaginative kak looked better when the tired Irish fell off him…
Mallet calling for Jaco Kriel to start at 6…
@pastorshark (Comment 174) : And Whitely to start…
And now Mallet and Ashwin in a studio spat! Great entertainment!!
@pastorshark (Comment 175) : and to take over captaincy IMO.
My team for next week:
1- Nyakane
2-Marx
3-Redlinghuis
4- Etzebeth
5- Mostert
6-kriel
7- PSDT
8-Whitely
9-De Klerk
10- Jantjie
11- Combrinck
12- De Allende
13- Mapoe
14- Jp
15- Willie
@gregkaos (Comment 80) : lol
@schrodingers cat (Comment 178) : change in Beast and I’d agree.
Interesting fact that surprised me – Ruan Combrinck is a Michaelhouse old boy and he was born in Vryheid.another Kzn boy we didn’t keep
@JD (Comment 180) : Yup…
@schrodingers cat (Comment 181) : yes but could be because UKZN is not as prestigious as Maties.
@schrodingers cat (Comment 178) : agree with the selection of psdt at no7 for next weekend’s test.
If Lambie is available again:
1-Beast
2-Marx
3-Redlinghuis
4-Etzebeth
5-Mostert
6-Kriel
7-PSDT
8-Whitely
9-De Klerk
10-Jantjies
11-Combrinck
12-Lambie
13-Mapoe
14-JP
15-Le roux
@schrodingers cat (Comment 185) : would not risk lambie for the 3rd test.that was a big knock.
@50shadesofshark (Comment 186) : If lambie is fit again it’s actually ideal to have him at 12 so that he can take the goal kicks
@50shadesofshark (Comment 184) : Siya Kolisi was really poor today and has been all season
@schrodingers cat (Comment 187) : was a head injury.need to be careful of rudhing a player to soon back into action after that.like the idea of lambie at no12 or second receiver at times even when selected at no10,on attacking ball.venter of the cheetahs also plays no12.
@schrodingers cat (Comment 188) : marcell was playing really good rugby and then he was injured.6marcell 7psdt 8whiteley?
@schrodingers cat (Comment 187) : de allende’s clean-out at the ruck created the space on the inside for whiteley for his try.took out the irish defender that would have been covering.
@50shadesofshark (Comment 190) : If he was not injured I’d play him there with kriel as impact player of bench for last 20 min. Especially against the All blacks . They always beat us in the last 20 because of lack of impact players
Apart from Nyakane, the team that finished the match should start next week.
@50shadesofshark (Comment 191) : must say de Allende (like most of the Bokke players) had a good last 20min.
@Bokhoring (Comment 193) : I agree with you but think AC will not.
got to ask – has Frans Malherbe ever attempted to obtain even a rudimentary understanding of the laws of rugby? Particularly those that pertain to the breakdown?
@robdylan (Comment 196) : are you surprised his mentor was Brok Harris.
@JD (Comment 194) : He still ran straight at players…that only works when the opposition are out on their feet. Now he’ll do that again for the rest of the season…and it will only work against a tired team at altitude in,the last 10 minutes of the game. Sigh! And is it just me or does that SP-goose-step that he’s developed irritate the bejeebers out of other people to?!
Next weeks team announcement will be interesting. If any of Malharbe, kolisi, flouw, vermulen are in the team you know Coetzee is blind. And if combrink, whitley, mostert and kriel don’t start he’s an absolute idiot.
AC you gave guys a second chance and they screwed it up. Give the guys who won the game and looked hungry to win the opportunity to represent the boks with pride.
Fir any one that is interested, the world club 10’s is live on Supersport 1,through out the days, Sharks currently 2nd in their pool
@robdylan (Comment 196) : It seems he has decided to take over Jannie’s role in the team with gusto – even trying to improve on Jannie’s usual penalty count.
@JD (Comment 195) : He will have the politicians all over him if he does.
@Bokhoring (Comment 202) : ja unfortunately you could be correct!
@pastorshark (Comment 198) : could be right suppose we will see next week?!?!?!
Janniw at least could scrum. Malherbe cabt even do that
Much like Robs article. I don’t have much to say about this bok team. Wait and see is my motto for now. Very bland. I must say one thing, in my mind Whiteley should be the starting player for most games he has the intelligence for the modern game. Maherbe and Louw don’t seem to be the quality we need. De Allende seems to be impact more than anything else. Personally I think the all rounder Keegan Daniel needs a call up. He will provide fire.
@Henkb (Comment 200) : see Sharks playing Brumbies in semifinal.
Sharks lost in semifinal to Brumbies 7-5.
With thor and whitely possibly both out for the 3rd test the suggestions for a number 8
best options would be Carr, nonthe or maybe shift kolisi to 8 the played well there before
I wouldnt play a half fit whitely
8 carr 7 kolisi 6 kriel
louw on the bench
psdt could help out at blindside if needed in the game
@revolverocelot (Comment 209) : Using the current squad (plus 2 from A team) I would start with Beast, Strauss, Redelinghuys, Eben, Mostert, Kriel, PSDT, Notshe, and Nyakane, Mbonambi, Malherbe, Kolisi and Carr on the bench. You need to soften up the Irish defense in the first half and retain the ball.
@Bokhoring (Comment 210) : Couldn’t agree more. Our forwards in the 1st test and first 60 minutes of the 2nd had no penetration.
The first 60min was the same timid Boks we saw last week. Its very concerning that a Bok team coming out at Ellis Park isnt fired up and aggressive. The last 60 with Whiteley and Combrinck the catalysts the Boks speed of play and aggression significantly improve their play and also made the Irish look poor. The only reason DeAllende broke that last tackle was because the Irish were struggling to keep up with the pace and aggression of the Boks attack. Im not sure what changes if many will be made but surely Combrinck will need to start. Id probably bring in Notshe for Kolisi too to up the pace. Hopefully Whiteley is fit to start too. I see Lambie ruled out of the 3rd test
@SheldonK (Comment 212) : It would be logical for Combrink to start but that will throw the team “dynamic” out and how do you then rectify it Paige for De Klerk – not even close, so cant happen, Bongi for Strauss, nope you cant do that to the captain. Maybe Notshe for Vermeullen, but where would that leave Whitely?
@Bokhoring (Comment 210) : Whitely?? The best player in the pack by a country mile
@Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 213) : I don’t think a player was selected with politics in mind in the previous two games,so lets not let corrupt ourselfs with these thoughts. If Notshe was to be selected lets say in these loose trio and sub 6.Kriel 7.PSDT 8. Whiteley 20. Notshe 19.Lood? Don’t you think this will be merit??
@Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 213) : @Tumza (Comment 215) : steer the conversation in a different direction please. We do not discuss politics.
@Bokhoring (Comment 210) : Maybe have Lood for Mbonambi because we can’t have a player fill up a place on the when we can use it for strategical reasons,I know we must have a backup hooker but I think Coetzee is making a mistake with giving a whole 80mins to Strauss maybe he’ll start thinking he the number 2 jersey is his. How can a captain opt for the line 3-6 down?? when the coach was speaking about building an innings??
@robdylan (Comment 216) : That was exactly what I was doing Boss 😀
@Vonno13 (Comment 214) : If he is unable to play – otherwise he would be the logical choice at 8.
@Tumza (Comment 215) : Not corrupting anything, look Lwazi is one of ours so we want whats best for him and us but Combrink has had all the form this season and should have been starting and that much was plain to see on Saturday.
@robdylan (Comment 216) : Its hardly politics, but I get where you dont want to go.
@Tumza (Comment 217) : Unless Bismark is on his way back I would say that the nr 2 jersey is Strauss’.
@Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 221) : you know as well as I do, that if you open the door even a crack, others will steamroller through.
@Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 222) : The two lads from the Lions and then the Stomers?? But I seriously doubt He will be captain and the Dewalt Potgieter mishaps
@Bokhoring (Comment 219) : Ok I see, did not realise he may be injured
@Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 220) : Lwazi was beyond terrible on Saturday, he was extremely poor and I think Ireland have shown the rest of the world how to attack him best. To be honest, besides taking two high balls the previous week, he was also very poor in the first test, he ruined a certain try, with a two man overlap.
Based on this last test, I am afraid that SA rugby seems to be in a deep dark hole. We must remember, 6 starting players for the Irish are not here, two flanks, flyhalf, both wings and fullback – and these just happen to be their best players, could you imagine it was us missing 6 of our best.
Our pack seems weak, we are getting thumped by the Irish in the scrum and they are mauling us at will. Are we really the power house we believe we are? Up to now, I can only comment on two tests and what I have seen, but Coetzee is not getting the best out of the players. He said there would be consequence for poor showing, now is the time to prove it. I am hoping to see whole sale changes to this side, with the likes of Marx ( bench ), Kriel, Mostert Combrink Whiteley ( all to start ) And as much as I sang Jantjies praises during Super Rugby, he is not delivering at test level, bring in Goosen.
Thank heavens we were not playing the ABS, Aussies or England this test series, it would have been beyond embarrassing.
Based on the guys in the squad i would like to see this team for the 3rd test: 1. Beast 2. Strauss 3. Redelinghuis 4. Mostert, 5. PSDT 6. Kriel 7. Notshe 8. Whiteley 9. DeKlerk 10. Jantjies 11. Combrinck 12. DeAllende 13. Mapoe 14. Le Roux 15. Kriel Subs: Kitshoff, Mbonambi, Nyakane, Etsebeth, Lood, Paige, Steyn, JPP
MS has to pay the next test, Jantjies kickoffs play into their hands constantly, MS atleast give us a chance to win the ball back when he kicks, never mind the fact that he made immediate impact to the game when he was on, Jantjies just riding the wave out after that.
@SheldonK (Comment 226) : reasons for having Etsebeth on the bench ?
@Zibbie (Comment 228) : I went with speed in the pack (barring front 3). I just felt that the Irish struggled when the tempo was picked up by the Boks so the more mobile locks and loose trio can really pick up the tempo. Then once run ragged there is the bulk off the bench which will be hard to stop late on when bodies are tired.
@SheldonK (Comment 229) : i see some people have mostert and Etsebeth as locks and PSdT as 7 .
@Zibbie (Comment 230) : yes, the position he made his sharks debut.was talk of him being the next juan smith.then he played no5 lock and after the saders game there ws talk of him being the next matfield.kid is talented.imagine 6marcell 7 psdt 8whiteley?
All poloitics aside, picking the best side for Saturday assuming the 3 in doubt are available I’d go with:
1. Beast 2. Strauss 3. Redelinghuis 4. Etzebeth, 5. Mostert 6. Kriel 7. PSDT 8. Whiteley 9. DeKlerk 10. Jantjies 11. Combrinck 12. DeAllende 13. Kriel14. JPP 15. Willie Subs: Kitshoff, Mbonambi, Nyakane, , Lood, Vermuelen, Paige, Steyn, Mapoe
I’d also give Jantjies a limited time to impress. If he’s not going to get us running (as he is touted to do) I’d bring on Steyn. Jantjies poor kicking form is putting us under to much pressure without the positive trade off of a devastating running game. It may be unfair to judge him as the game plan may not suit him but if he can’t deliver the game plan select someone who can. This is probably harsh on Mapoe but Kriel needs to be given a chance to showcase his talent, Mapoe hasn’t done anything great so lets see if Kriel can.
@Hulk (Comment 232) : would like to see francois venter get an invite to train with the squad in pe this week.
@Zibbie (Comment 230) : Yeh ive seen that quite a bit too. The Current loose trio combo isnt working so guess something has to change.
@SheldonK (Comment 226) : Having Kriel , Notshe and Whiteley as your loose trio sounds good in theory but I don’t think it will work . You’re sacrificing too much weight at international level for a loose trio . Think they should go with either Kriel / notshe at 6 with whiteley at 8 and a heavier guy at 7 like PSDT or Kolisi or even Vermeulen .It would be a really exiting loose trio ( having Notshe,Kriel and Whitely) but we would battle in scrums and defending mauls etc. where pure weight is needed.
@schrodingers cat (Comment 235) : xolisi and kriel both around 102kg and not much diff in height.agree on your points re: need for muscle mass .think marceel,psdt,whiteley might be the ideal combo.
Ok This might be a bit weird but does anyone think Eben Etzebeth could play open side Flank. He is mobile enough and a opensider doesnt have to be a fetcher? .Look at ALberts for example he didnt play to the ball he just caried and tackled hard .
@schrodingers cat (Comment 235) : What is the weight difference between those guys though? Yes PSDT heavier but he is a lock. otherwise i would think they are fairly similar. Its not like the heavier guys have had much impact in these 2 games though
Nothshe only weighs 99 kg and Kriel 98 Where Vermeulen weighs 116 Kg . Kolisi is surprisingly only 104 kg so I was wrong with him but there’s a clear wheight difference between PSDT ,Vermeulen and Kriel ,Notshe . Even Willem Alberts wheighs 120 Kg which could be a option at openside and then having a lighter but more skillfull Kriel/Notshe and Whitley at 6 and 8
@schrodingers cat (Comment 239) : Ah ok. Interesting to see what the weights are of the NZ and OZ loose trio? I get that we need some bulk and grunt but at the moment that isnt helping us at all. So perhaps its time to try the quicker and lighter guys as the Irish seemed to struggle when the pace was upped but seemed very comfortable tackling the big slower guys.
@SheldonK (Comment 240) : We were so lucky Stander wasn’t playing on Saturday,if he was we wouldn’t have won that game
@SheldonK (Comment 238) : psdt gives an option to counter read at the back of the line-out,too.
@The hound (Comment 241) : Stander is playing well but cant say we would or would not have won. Guess we shall see how he goes this next Sat. Im more interested to see how AC reacts to this last weekends game
@50shadesofshark (Comment 242) : I have no problem picking PSDT at 7. But there are a lot of people that say players shouldnt be picked in positions different to what they play every week.
@SheldonK (Comment 240) : I’m not saying we should only pick heavy big guys because it doesn’t work like we saw when we lost to Ireland , but we need one big loose forward only their for wheight to balance the loose trio out . Look at Ab’s for example they have 2 skillful loose forwards in Sam Cane and Keiren Reid and then they have Kaino who’s only there to help out with weight
@SheldonK (Comment 240) : psdt is a 2.01m 116kg athlete.(Height and weight may vary due to altitude and dietary factors ,it seems 😀 ).
@schrodingers cat (Comment 245) : @50shadesofshark (Comment 246) : As i said i have no problem playing a heavier guy but if it is PSDT should he then not be playing 7 for his franchise as well? And then who do we start at lock? And if PSDT isnt the answer at 7 going forward then who is?
@SheldonK (Comment 247) : don’t know the team dynamics that don’t have him playing at no7 for the stormers.he was signed with no5 position in mind.the test vs irish hqve just opened up a little debate re: 5 or 7 qs being his best position going fwd for the boks.need to keep in mind he mqde his sharks debut at no7 and was spoken of qs the next juqn smith.he is multi-talented.
@SheldonK (Comment 247) : true I don’t think The stormers would play PSDT at 7 ahead of Kolisi and it’s not a good thing if he plays lock there and flank for boks. Regarding other locks I think we have a surplus of great locks in SA ( Dejager, Etzebeth,RG Cutman,Jenkings,Lewies,Willemse,Du Plessis)
@schrodingers cat (Comment 249) : Stormers could play PSDT at 7 with Kolisi/Notshe/Carr making up the loose trio. They could then play Etzebeth and Schickerling at lock. I just cant see them doing that though. So do we want a guy playing in 1 position provincially and another at test level? Or who are the other options at 7 if we want someone heavy there?
@SheldonK (Comment 250) : Willem Alberts or Jannes Kirsten
@schrodingers cat (Comment 251) : Oh goodness please no. Id rather have the lighter guys play
@SheldonK (Comment 252) :lol y don’t u like them?
@schrodingers cat (Comment 253) : Alberts is so over the hill he is actually down the road. Kirsten nowhere near international level…perhaps in the future maybe but not currently. If Jacques Potgieter is ever fit maybe can look at him. But id rather take the quicker lighter guys and play a higher tempo game. And on defense they just need to man up
@SheldonK (Comment 254) : yes it is a shame potgieter was injured.would have liked to see him play.
@schrodingers cat (Comment 245) : Kaino just there for weight?? You must be joking. He is one of, if not the best loose forward in the world. Reid is also not a small man, 110kg is big.
@SheldonK (Comment 254) : I agree with you on the side of pace. To me, size is not overly important, as long as the flank is strong enough to make the yards over the advantage line.
Take the best loose forward who ever played the game, R Mccaw, by no means the biggest, actually, not nearly the biggest, but he was brutal, tough and extremely explosive – not all about how much you weigh. Ask yourself this, would Vermeulen have been able to score the try which Whitely scored?? Rugby is ever evolving and to me, it looks like the lighter, more explosive player is currently winning.
@Vonno13 (Comment 256) : Think the key word there was explosive power. You’re 100% right, Marcel Coetzee is another one, not the biggest guy (although he’s fairly large) but he does have explosive power, often displayed in defence…
@Vonno13 (Comment 256) : For me i just look at how our heavy guys are going and they really are ineffective at the moment. Then i look at the lighter guys and how they just seem to combine better and play at a higher tempo which the Irish seemed to struggle with. For me as you say its about strength and power more than just weight. We have tried the heavier guys…lets try up the tempo massively in the last game and even if we go PSDT at 7 id play Kriel and Whiteley with him. Although if we want to pick on form id play Kriel, Notshe, Whiteley with Mostert and PSDT at lock. Thats speed from 4 to 8.
@Vonno13 (Comment 256) : I disagree I think Kaino is more Of a Duane Vermeulen type player . I can’t imagine him or Duane being able to sidestep and attack space as much as a Whitley/Notshe/kriel can. They are more fond of using there momentum to get over A-line. Saying his only there for his weight doesn’t mean his a bad player he could arguably be one of the best looseforwards in the world
My 2 cents… you need all of the above. Rugby is a game where you need a diverse bunch of players. Having a crash ball carrier and a fast space finder and a pilferer is the best loosie combination IMO. It gives you options, makes the side unpredictable and extremely difficult to defend against. Against a well oiled defence fancy footwork doesn’t work alone. The aus vs eng game seemed to show this happen for 80 minutes.
We were lucky to have PSDT crashing the ball up so well and puncturing holes in their def to let guys like Whitely just enough space to exploit.
Unfortunately for the rest of the world ABs have had this type of balance for too long.
@gregkaos (Comment 260) : I agree
@gregkaos (Comment 260) : psdt passes and tries to off-load in tackles.he is not just a basher.hoping to see more of his younger brother at the sharks.
@50shadesofshark (Comment 262) : agreed! Don’t get me wrong about his skills but when he did crash it up he got the Boks forward momentum and forced Ireland def to go back and reshape.
I’m also in no way suggesting he be moved to flank. Either our blindside flank / 8th man needs to be able to do what PSDT did.
@gregkaos (Comment 263) : He played 7 in 2012 when the u/20’s won the wc.
I think his best position would be 7, frees him up to play a more mobile game.